Part of the problem with the Blogosphere is the self-importance we bestow upon ourselves. Everybody wants to be heard or in this case, read. Everybody wants to write something relevant, of heavy content and that creates a viral impact that spreads out to all ideology corners of the planet. OK, maybe not everybody is like that, but jeez, don't you wish that at times you can just read something mindless and fun with a superfluous amount of cheese to go with it? Well they don't call me TP for nothing... I've earned that acronym well and I wear it proudly on my TP holder.
Here's a couple of things that I've thought about for a while, that while important (to me) doesn't have enough meat for me to fully cook up a posting. Feel free to duck at your discretion:
* Remember when Congress was crying for an "exit" strategy on the war on terror? or the war in Iraq? Great. But how come nobody ever demanded an exit strategy on the war on poverty and the war on drugs? Those two wars by themselves have been colossal failures yet we keep giving them "surges" every 2 years...... just sayin'...
* You want to save some serious dead presidents to our Federal budget? lets look at the bloated Bureaucracy that is the intelligence community in our country. Can anyone tell me why in the world the US needs 15 intelligence agencies? I was astounded but not surprised to learn there are 15 intelligence agencies (that we know of) in the Federal Government. Fifteen! This is the official Government site for the intelligence tree (http://www.intelligence.gov/1-members.shtml). I count 6 for the military branches, 2 for in-country law enforcement, 4 for cabinet level directorates and 3 for James Bond stuff. Call me stupid or naive but just looking at this list has me of the opinion that there HAS to be severe overlapping responsibilities here, .... am I alone on an Island on this one? I would love to see what percentage chunk of the Federal Budget these 15 prima donnas takes in.
Lets cut the fat. I am fully for a strong, prevalent and take-no-prisoners policy as to intelligence gathering ability. But this largess has been built through years of inter-agency squabbling, military branch rivalries and territorial peeing. Its time to start consolidating these agencies into real-world efficiency entities. You keep hearing of inter-agency bickering and turf-protection... are you kidding me? Are we not all on the same team? Are the military branches not in the business of working together in a wondrous ballet of cooperation? (I know, I know.. but you get my drift). Somebody CALIBRATE me on this please.....
* Why is it, that you have to take a test for everything in life? You have to test to drive, to get a contractor's license, to sell real estate, to practice medicine, to teach,.... you have to get tested for almost everything this country has to offer........ except for two things. One, you don't have to get tested or pass a test to procreate. you just boink away and voila! you are a parent, regardless of whether or not you are psychologically ready or not. Regardless of the fact that if you fail, chances are tax-payers will have to pony up to take care of his offspring -one way or another-. And two: You don't have to take a test to vote. Nothing. You can be as dumb as a bag of rocks, and have the IQ of a grapefruit and they will shove your butt into a van, indoctrinate you on who to vote for on your way there, wheel you into the polling station, strap the electronic pen onto your wrist and boom! Done. Imagine that. Two of the most noble and important things a citizen can be, a parent and a voter requires zero testing or preparation by the state.
* You ever wonder why almost every cop car and highway trooper / patrol has a supped-up V8 engine just chugging away at the gas gauge? Why is it that the Sierra Club or Tree Huggers Inc have not asked or demanded that all public safety vehicles be Toyota Prius's? I mean, this is the lifesaver of the planet, is it not? Imagine the savings on gas? on local, State and Federal budgets, on carbon emissions, on insurance premiums,... on safety and accidents! Why is there a deafening silence on this?... inquiring minds do wanna' know...
* Finally, ... Colin Powell, (in my humble and subjective prism of view) is just as much a political opportunist as the Clinton's, the Cuomo's and the Kennedy's (insert GOP opportunists here as well, I just can't think of any at the time of my writing). Every single ounce of respect I had for him,... is nearly gone. I don't hate him or loathe him; and his contributions to flag, Army and country are noted. But respect is something you earn, and have to keep earning. But I have to give him one smidgen of credit, for at least now, he is finally showing what he has been for 25 years. A phony in conservative clothing.
There... don't we all feel better now?... OK,... back to the important postings that really make a difference ...
Posts
51 comments:
I love this one. only one part I'd have to put my two cents in on, and that is Colin Powell. For the sake of being called a racist, he is no a phony at all. He's a liberal's political prostitute. If it was up to him, we'd still be bowing at the alter of the U.N. and the fact that Bush said get bent to them is the reason that he got pissy with Bush.
But for the rest of it, yes I agree that we salute his time in service to our country. But he no longer serves anyone but himself and frankly self-serving rino's like him are still political prostitutes in my book.
Greywolfe,
"... Liberal's political prostitute.."
Please don't mind me if I use that gracious and loving term more often... I promise to give you props and credit when merited........ love that line...
Man,
Where you been? Good stuff!
I concur with both of you on General Powell. I respect his service as a soldier. After that....I respect his service as a soldier.
CB...
Not to pile-on (but why not?), but I always wondered why he (Powell) got so many of the accolades for the success of Gulf War one (Bush 41). Centcom (Stormin' Norman)and the other Marine General who headed the 24th Mech (his name escapes me) were the arms that came up with the majority of the detail and planning for the "Hail Mary" moves of the war. Yet, the media has been rather generous in labeling him the "architect" of the missions, when there is nothing written or anecdotal proving it.
I'm not trying to diminish his meteoric rise and achievements. There is something to be said for his character, moral fortitude and other virtues as a man and citizen. But I am just re-stating something I have said for many years.
Other than that?... Love the man...
Great post! I think you should start the movement to stop the Endless War on Poverty! I'm ready to buy my bumpersticker, but I must warn you I don't have time for Anti-War on Poverty protests...some of us have to work! :)
Biased Girl,
There is no doubt in my mind that somewhere in this loving land of ours; somebody has just the bumper sticker you are looking for. A few clicks on the Google search bar may render some amazing findings :)
Well, now that Colin Powell has shown leaderhsip and also shown that his love for country is greater than his love of party everyone is ready to throw him to the curb. Of course we all know that the only reason he achieved what he did was because of the party and he is no longer apprecative.
I am imagine Newt Gingrich will be next...with his attack on the RNC for the ads they are running trying to tie the Illinois governor scandal to Obama...
Folks, in case you have not noticed, we are in BIG doo doo in a whole lot of areas...
We no longer have the luxury of partisan politics and wasting time with mudslinging and character assinination....
I am not real sure that the democrats are up to the challenge or that they can rise to the challenge....
The Fed has lowered interest rates to just about zero...and inflation has disappeared and now we are staring at a depression....which realistically, with all the excess value, supply, and capacity in our system and since the credit crunch has all but killed demand could go on for decades.
It isn't a time for politics as usual...
Tao, first I'd like to say good to meet you. Secondly, Powell has shown nothing other than his true colors. Which, I might add, have always been U.N. blue and not red, white, and blue. That's the reason I vote him off the island. It's nothing new from me or from many.
The way he left the whitehouse and the way he actively worked against his boss (Bush) while he served there, left a bad taste in a lot of mouths. We were more than happy to let him fade away into obscurity, but unfortunately, he just couldn't do it. He pulled a Hollywood on us and decided to use his name to further another black man to an office he was too chicken-shit (excuse the use of french) to run for himself.
Now as to this statement, "We no longer have the luxury of partisan politics and wasting time with mudslinging and character assinination...."
Where do you come from? What planet? The people that are set to take over 2 branches of government are the most liberal, and at the risk of being redundant, socialist pieces of gene-pool scum to EVER have been put in office. Exactly, when have they ever decided to not use character assassinations or partisan politics to further THEIR goals? The only recourse you would leave us is to have no voice at all in backing them up.
Understand me, I'm not defending what is left of t he republicans either. They have acted like political prostitutes, themselves, for too long, for there to be any love lost between me and them.
So, what is the alternative? Roll over and let them take us the way of Europe? I'll be dead and buried before I allow for that. I'll rage against anyone, regardless if it's that affirmative action post card cutout Powell, or Barry Obama, or even G.W. Bush, right up to the time when the new incarnation of the fairness doctrine tries to shut me down. Then they'll have to shoot me or throw me in prison to shut me up.
ooh that sounded angry at the end.
Greywolfe, The path to socialism is not something that we will venture upon come January 20th..rather we have been a socialist republic for quite sometime or at least a cronyism republic for quite a few years.
That means that the people who profess the same principles I do, like small government, lower taxes, balanced budgets, free markets....have actually started us down the path of socialism/cronyism quite sometime ago.
They have enriched themselves and their buddies long enough and now they all are running off and hiding or slinging mud when the heavy work becomes necessary.
Sorry, I do not have the same disrespect for Powell that you do. I kind of feel like him...I played by the rules all these years, I worked hard and I achieved.....and I now feel as if I was used.
So now the folks I believed share the same philosophy as I do are either in line for a handout, awaiting a trial, or scurring to protect their own illbegotten gains and I am stuck in the trenches trying to continue fighting the good fight...
Bush is stupid, Cheney is crooked, and all the rest of them are just suck ups.....and Powell makes a stand and everyone attacks him...
I was always taught to win you must respect your competition...and I have alot of respect for the liberals....
Sadly, I look around and I believe that I am fighting the good fight all alone....
Right now I would rather have someone like Powell on my team than any of the rest of the self centered treacheous low lifes that have been running this country for the last 20 years....and outside of three people in major corporations I cannot find any CEO's of major corporations that I would hire for my own company.
So, I am not interested in mudslinging and bad mouthing...winning elections is not a big deal to me right now because I think we have a much bigger battle to win....
You can call liberals anything you want but to justify your own behavior by the the behavior of whom you scorn really isn't much of an achievement.
Right now I believe our big fight is against special interests and cronyism.....socialism and liberalism is a battle for another day.
Looking at your post Tao, I have to say that I agree with 90% of what you say. with a few exceptions. However, I'll just agree to disagree on Powell.
but your assertion that we aren't headed for socialism starting jan. 20th. Pick a topic of the pres.-elect's administration and you'll see the far left's most rabid socialists. Global warming, energy, economy. For crying out loud, this is beating a dead horse but doesn't his notion of a "civilian national security force" that is just as well funded and armed as the military scare you a little bit?(See also, Germany 1929).
As for respecting the liberals... No, I don't respect them, I fear the damage they will do, if unchecked. They do not stand for one single principle upon which this country was founded.
You say you feel that you are fighting the good fight alone? What fight are you fighting? You say that you are upset at the people in office because of, and I'm paraphrasing here, their corruption. And yet, you don't give a hoot or hollar for trying to get elections one to get them out of office. How are you fighting? I am not a supporter of many in Congress, but I do know that only in FORCING them to do what we feel is right, AND pushing to get more people of our ilk in elected office is the ONLY way short of armed uprising to clean out D.C.
I'm sorry but in one sentence you claim to be a social and fiscal conservative, fighting the good fight. Then you bash those of us on here that wish to move mountains and breath fire in support of that fight.
One of us is confused and the other needs anti-depressants. I'll let others decide which is which.
Tao: Let me just cut and paste [with some emphasis added]:
Bush is stupid, Cheney is crooked, and all the rest of them are just suck ups.....and Powell makes a stand and everyone attacks him...
Right now I would rather have someone like Powell on my team than any of the rest of the self centered treacheous low lifes that have been running this country for the last 20 years....
So, I am not interested in mudslinging and bad mouthing...
You were saying?
Its funny... (yuk-yuks coming out of my mouth) ... The Powell bit was a "filler" I threw in at the bottom of the posting since I felt 4 quick-shot topics weren't "meaty" enough for a post...., and wouldn't you know it?, it gets the most traction.
Tao / Patrick M:
I don't think I threw Colin Powell overboard or "under the bus" to coin an often-used phrase. If you want to know what that type of road kill smells like, go peruse my own Blog, ... I am not that subtle. What I did was express that throughout his political life, he has been a Republican in name only (R.I.N.O.) since most of his stances are not defined (in my view) as classic positions of conservatism. Affirmative Action anyone? Yes, in my thoughtful measure, calling him a phony was very much adequate. Additionally, I had been flummoxed by the idea that he had been the architect of Desert Shield/Storm. Again, not to dis-inflate his contributions, but everybody knows the Joint Chiefs rarely get to do the fun stuff of minutia and battle-planning. They are overall Administrators, nothing more. This has been written about in many books by retired Generals. I don't think my description if flippant or skewed.
Again, I love the man as a person and think he is one of the grandest statesmen we've had in the political theater. But I do think it was the height of opportunism that when his speaking fees were coming down substantially from lack of popularity or demand, that he decides to go on Meet the Press and express his support for Obama....Pow! Speaking fees are back to the $100K mark. I think opportunist was not a far-fetched moniker.
I don't think I am being lethal, or un-bipartisan (is there such a word?...), I am simply forming an opinion. Do with it as you will.
Man you covered the gambit with this one!
Ok ,"exit startegy," the war on drugs and poverty are liberal creations and liberals never look for exits only more money and growth for continual failures!
Intelligence community. Isn't this an oxymoron, I mean government intelligence!
Tests - you left out one important job which also does not require any test that affects everyone. Elected Office! If a test was required maybe these morons would know we have a Constitution and what it actually means!
Trooper V8's - maybe even the Sierra Club realizes that troopers need the power of a V8 to stop scum bags who think thay can race from the scene of a crime!
Collin Powell - turn coat extrordinare. I like you beleive he is an opportunist. His endorsement of Obama was to try and get back into the good favors of blacks who had labled him an Uncle Tom and he also saw an opportunity to be on Obama's cabinet. I think he failed on both accounts.
Greywolfe,
In a democracy everyone has a right to vote...and as I see it the vast majority of Americans who got up and voted this election were fed up with conservatives and went for the other side...and I really don't blame them because I voted for Obama too.
So, now they all want a piece of the pie too...does it surprise you? For years we have had capitalistic cronyism, which is nothing more than socialism for a few as the basis of our economic and political system and guess what...it has blown up.
Now all the conservatives are jumping ship....so what else is new? They were not conservatives in principle but only conservatives for personal benefit.
So a few conservatives stood up to the Wall Street bailout...at least they did until some tax deductions were added to the monster...
Guess what...banks have money and they are not lending! Is that a surprise? They are still planning on big bonsuses...is that a surprise?
In 2004 the Feds noted that almost half of Americans were living beyond their means...so do they do anything to stop the flood of easy credit? Nope, they pass a tighter personal bankruptcy bill....
The way I see it, we are just getting our just reward...for years this country catored to the special interests and the big money...and now the little folks think that Obama is going to make all their debt disappear...
Why shouldn't they? It is their country too and for so long our government has propped up some really poorly run companies and made some really bad ideas very rewarding for a few...
You reap what you sow....
After all these years hearing about how those that own the wealth should be worshipped because they create jobs....as a small business owner I KNOW the truth...demand creates jobs not me.
Right now I might be maintaining jobs because business sucks....but only demand creates jobs..
Right now I think we should take every politician, every lobbyist, and every CEO of a company that is getting benefit from the government and put them all on a cruise ship and then sink the darn thing and start all over....
After Clinton and his intern we replaced that disgust with just more of the same...
So, how bad can Obama be? I am kind of hoping that since he plays basketball that he might actually end up being a little different than all the golfers and hunters we have had up to this point....and never again will I support a guy that cuts brush on weekends...
So...how is that for a logic? :)
We are down to picking a President based on his hobbies....
What a mess....
If I may...
But how come nobody ever demanded an exit strategy on the war on poverty and the war on drugs? Those two wars by themselves have been colossal failures yet we keep giving them "surges" every 2 years
1. I'd have to see some research to back up the contention that the war on poverty has been a failure. We don't have people dying in the streets, we have perhaps the wealthiest "poor" people in the world (and that's a good thing, seems to me), and we don't suffer from the worst effects of poverty here in the US that other nations often do.
2. Could the war on poverty go better? Sure, and I'd be glad to see some support/improvements towards that end. From private enterprise or gov't.
3. Will poverty be wiped out? No. And that is why the war on poverty is an on-going effort.
4. There is no demand to end the war on poverty because most of us recognize it IS an on-going effort and, unlike the "war on terrorism," people aren't dying and our security is not being undermined by the efforts.
5. As to the War on Drugs, I'd be glad to see that one concluded. It seems to me, though, that THAT war is being fought primarily because of conservative support. Liberals and libertarians support ending that bad idea.
Patrick,
You are right....but I am so angry right now!
Last week I had OSHA surprise me with a visit and he wrote me up because I do not keep my reports in a three ring binder...the way he likes it.
But rather I keep our reports by month in file folders....
Which since my last work related accident occured in 1999 WHO CARES?
He does...and that a $1200 penalty.
We also started a sales tax audit yesterday...and I promised my bookkeeper that I would not get involved....she says I embarrass her. :)
So I promised....
Then this newly minted auditor goes on to inform us that we have been calulating sales tax all wrong and that I should be taxing my sales to retailers who go and collect tax from the consumer when they sell the goods...
I bit my lip and did not get involved but boy I am not holding out real well....I sure hope that my bookkeeper is able to convince this freshly minted auditor that she is wrong because I plan on humilating the little bimbo...
If you have a line on the form labeled "deductions" and one of them is for all sales shipped to an out of state address then....hmmm...little bimbo out to read the forms she is auditing and ask questions....
I like Kentucky on internet sales, I am to charge sales tax for all orders placed by someone in the state and or shipped to someone in the state. So, on the internet, how do you know if someone is actually in the state when they place the order? Maybe they are in a hotel but their home address is another state...or maybe someone who's credit card billing address is Kentucky actually goes to school or lives in another state?
Who knows? So, who writes these laws and what do they know about reality?
The Liberal Lie said:
the war on drugs and poverty are liberal creations
The War on Drugs is a liberal creation??
In what regards? According to this NPR timeline:
* The term was first used by President Richard Nixon in 1971, when he officially declared a war on drugs
* Jimmy Carter ran on a platform to decriminalize marijuana and easing up the "war on drugs"
* The "war" picked up during the Reagan/Bush years
* Clinton expanded it some with NAFTA and Plan Colombia - but these were actions opposed by liberals
Some would say that it's increased further under Bush II.
So, I'm not sure how you mean it's a liberal creation. Would someone care to explain that?
Dan,
A hint...
The liberals create everything that involves a government program.
There has never been a conservative President except Ronald Reagan....
Oh, and George Bush belongs to nobody....he's an orphan.
Congress is to hold hearings on the Madoff scheme....
Bet he ends up getting bailed out after those hearings....
If he can sucker folks to give him 50 billion dollars then Congress should be easy pickings for a man with his talents...
TP...
Read your clarification on Powell...
Okay.
But I have an issue, and do tell, when TRUE conservatives, by which I mean those that not only talk the talk but also walk the walk, run for office which party do they tend to migrate to?
Sure isn't Republicans...
Sorry TP, to have taken over so much of your comment section but hypocracy pisses me off.
Tao, so far you've called names and said you hate mudslinging, you say you're a small government type, then admit that you're a supporter of a man who is looking to increase the federal budget by 1 trillion (if all of his pet projects go through) dollars.
You attack those of us here that hold to true conservative values and offer nothing but your hypocritical drivel. Go find ducky and have a liberal whining session and leave the "good fight" to those of us that are willing to actually fight.
Again, TP. sorry for the hijack. Wont be back to this post as this twit has my dander up.
Gentlemen, I appreciate the comment thread here. TP, you proved your point.
I think you are looking for General Walt Boomer...CG of my II Marine Expeditionary Force, in which I proudly served. I remember his pre-deployment speech to the entire MEF, like it was....oh, 18 years ago. But good people.
I might suggest standing down from the line, and Grey, please do not refrain from comments. We want exchange and iteraction, and differences of opinion. We can all have different takes on particular issues, but the aim here is to find those things that define us as conservatives.
We are all fighting the same battle, unfortunately we have allowed ourselves to be dividedon the battlefield and are observing different objectives. Continue the debate, allow for differences, and the commonalities will reveal themselves. It is at that point that we will know which front is most appropriate on which to mass forces.
Greywolf:
No apologies needed.... I love a good hijacking... I just finished my second bowl of popcorn just reading you guys... , I'm well into my third,...
To all:
I appreciate the lively banter and back and forth..., I have pretty thick skin so (pardon the reference) bring it on. Now I wish I would have done an in-depth expose of Messier Powell..., that may have gotten the comment section to a DefCon 4 status....
.... who's next?....
The liberals create everything that involves a government program.
Are you suggesting it was a liberal that came up with the program to give tax credits to folk who purchased Hummers? How about Homeland Security - LIBERALS were behind that? The world's largest military - a liberal design?
Come now, let's be reasonable. The truth is that the gov't grew more under Reagan/Bush/Bush than any presidents in our history. I don't find Reagan to be a conservative at all.
And, as noted, the War on Drugs is a conservative invention - or at least certainly not a liberal one - and the corresponding largest penal system in the world is a Big Gov't byproduct.
We are all fighting the same battle, unfortunately we have allowed ourselves to be dividedon the battlefield and are observing different objectives...
I appreciate your angle here, Robert, and more power to you: may your tribe increase.
But I think you can see here an inherent problem in modern conservatism - y'all tend to eat your own. If you aren't in lockstep agreement with MY type of conservative (too many neo-cons think), then you're no conservative at all!
Or at least that's how it looks from here.
re: my comment about world's largest prison system, a source.
Dan, your point in exactly what led to the creation of this place here. There have already been some "conservatives" who have swarmed here and in attack mode over an opinion I expressed on another blog.
When Jennifer and I first discused our focus here, we were of the opinion exactly as you expressed. The factions of the party insist on a candidate for their moral/social/economic/ideological issues that we see the enemy as ourselves and not the opposition. Real conservative values have fallen by the wayside in an attempt to appease those in the middle and in the press.
Homeland Security was a conservative creation, but one that should have been done 20 years ago. The modern corrections system is a by-product of conservative leadership with good intentions perhaps, but very little foresight.
You are right, government has expanded since 1994, and the financial situation has been exacerbated by a refusal to govern effectively and with deliberation. The party spent more time delaing with Monica Lewinsky than they did with the consequences of the Berlin Wall collapse.
We have many things to find in commn, bickering about individual items is not the firection we need to flow.
Greywolfe,
Oh, and you support a party that does what? Goes from a projected surplus to what? 10 trillion in debt?
Yes, based upon my own calculations McCain would have cost us 5.6 trillion and obama could cost us 3.8 trillion...so in truth I went with the fiscal conservative....
Earlier, you agreed with 90% of what I said...now you want to paint me as a hypocrite....kind of funny isn't it?
I am not going to sit here and claim to be a conservative and then lambast the liberals but keep very quite about the Republicans...because if truth be known no matter what Obama does in the next four years he will not hurt this country as bad as bush did.
But you cannot claim to be anymore of a principled conservative by voting for Bush or McCain anymore than I can for voting for Obama...
So, whats another trillion dollars in pet projects to the trillions spent in the last year years for pet projects? After the last eight years a trillion looks affordable to me....
Care to educate me on why a liberal spending a trillion gets you all worked up but a conservative, and he calls himself that, spends 10 trillion and you do not say a thing?
Or do you want to sweep GWB back into the closet and hide him?
Yeah, I voted for Obama...and I hoped by doing so that we eventually end up with a party that I can respect and support rather than continually voting for the lesser of two evils....
Which this election and based upon their own plans ended up being Obama if you sit down and did the math....
I make well over $250,000 a year and if the government wants to raise my taxes 10% then be my guest. Because at least the democrats normally create a better economy for me to make money in, a better economy increases my income and if the government wants 10% to increase my base....
Then tell me where to send the check. Its not theory...its facts. Theories do not pay my employees facts do. Theories do not make my income facts do.
I don't hire employees based upon theories or ideology nor do I hire anyone for a tax credit...I hire when sales justify the need.
I didn't start focussing on selling overseas because it sounded like a good theory...I did it because I figured, last year already, that this country was headed down the tubes.
I didn't decide to start selling via the internet because a bunch of young people said it was a good idea...I did it because I feared that my retailers weren't going to make it and I was not going to sit around till the day that I had no way of getting my products to consumers.
I love conservative theory...but it does not exist in this country in any realistic form right now.
I have to make all of my decisions based on reality because I have too many people depending on me not to be stupid.
Oh, and don't worry about offending me....I can handle my own quite well....I have been doing it for years without the help of anyone, without financing and I sure haven't gotten anything except audits from our government....
Correction: the war on drugs began under Nixon. While this is true one also must remember that Nixon also began several other less than conservative programs. Socially Nixon was almost liberal in some of his ideas and programs implemented. Dems and Republicans have thrown millions into this never ending, mismanaged black hole of failure.
The point here though is actually that the liberal idea is that once a program is started whether it is a success or a failure is not what matters ONLY that more funding and growth of the program follows. That is how liberalism works. In fact that is how government works.
Unfortunatly both GOP and Dems fall into the spending trap!
TAO, I fully agree with you that McCain would not have been a conservative if elected to office, but he would not have been a socialist either.
As far as conservative principles are concerned, that is why this site exists to discuss what they are and also to make known these principles to hopefully, allow those in Washington or at least we who vote for those that go to Washington the tools and knowledge necessary to STOP just voting for the lesser of two evils and actually have candidates whose true stance is conservative and will govern as such if elected.
Conservatism has not failed, it still exists. But those who claim to be conservative fail in acting or governing as a conservative and that is where the failure has taken place.
The point here though is actually that the liberal idea is that once a program is started whether it is a success or a failure is not what matters ONLY that more funding and growth of the program follows. That is how liberalism works.
? Oh really? Do you have a source for that? That liberals ONLY want more funding and growth of programs - regardless of the need for or efficacy of the program?
I have never met any such liberals - not one - nor have I ever read any liberal writers advocating such. I'm sure it may seem that way to some people - just as it seems to many that conservatives don't care about the poor or that they love war - but appearances aren't always reality.
For more serious analysis of actual positions (as opposed to strawman arguments), I'd suggest I'd have to have some evidence to back up such a claim. Fair enough?
I will allow that there is a tendency in any program - gov't or private, conservative or liberal or otherwise - to become inwardly focused and to lose sight of the Big Picture or to ever ask, "Is this really necessary?" And so, it is a good thing to have conservatives and liberals constantly questioning the efficacy of, for instance, welfare, or warfare or corporate welfare or whichever program we want to talk about.
But I see no evidence to suggest that this is limited to liberals.
I've gone and had to go back on my earlier promise to keep my yap shut...
Looking backt through EVERYTHING I posted here and in the past, I don't remember EVER saying I was a Mac fan. In fact, if you'd take the opportunity to look at some of my older posts, you'd find that I detested the man. Also, you will note that I don't go out of my way to throw parades for the Republican party either. And I believe that bush was a catastrophic mistake in a lot of different areas.
So your entire tirade about the difference between barry and mac was pointless. You put words in my mouth (figuratively speaking) that don't show up anywhere in this conversation.
As for your comments about gladly paying taxes, well uncle barry thanks you. However, I will point out that it was the Reagan tax CUTS that brought us out of the financial debacle of the 70's and again, Tax CUTS that kept us out of a recession following 9/11. As for myself, I'd just as soon the government stop thinking that they have the right take anything from me and give it to those that don't produce.
And I'm not worried about offending you. I've never shied from pointing out irrational thought in anyone.
Aside from the above, I congratulate you on keeping what you have. Hope you and yours are still around in 4 years.
Dan... do we have a source for our belief that liberal social programs don't go away, just grow? How about HISTORY. Let's start with Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Welfare. Income taxes, IRS, medicare drug coverage, and my personal favorite gistapo organization Dept. of Health and Human Services.
All are liberal ideas that just keep growing and growing. And before you spout about how G.W. and the Republicans voted/signed it into law, I'd have you remember/check previous posts here and elsewhere where among other things we lambast the GOP for being democrat-lites.
Greywolfe...
I never once attacked you for supporting McCain...you attacked me for my vote to Obama and I defended my vote very logically. You attacked my logic and I defended it. I do not vote often but when I do I do so very logically and very factually.
Tax cuts work because they give people money to spend...Tax cuts will not work now because this is not a traditional business cycle recession...this is an ECONOMIC MELTDOWN. You cannot shop your way out of a complete economic meltdown brought on by easy credit.
So, why the focus on tax cuts? When personal debt is at a level never seen before, government debt is at levels never seen before and our trade imbalance is through the roof....
Realistically Obama could come into office and declare the whole year a tax holiday and it wouldn't be of benefit to anyone...it would be like those stimulus checks in 2007, for a few months things would settle down then they would go back to meltdown.
But I am not going to rant blinded by my own ideology...and I did not see one single conservative offer up a another plan for the future to counter the socialism of Obama. I can only assume that conservatives realized they had no solution for this mess.
If I am out of business in four years I will NOT blame Obama...I will put the blame right square where it belongs...and that is George Bush...
I am also thinking that if what you say is correct then I need to cease operations now and just walk away; just pull an Atlas Shrugged...
Realistically the stock market is a suckers game that no one will want to invest in and the banks have tightened their hatches to save themselves, the real estate market will most likely take decades to bounce back, like it did in Houston in the mid 1980's
With credit being tight from now on it will be a long time till consumers return to shopping then with the way commodity prices are falling it is obvious that deflation has returned and that makes everything worse....oh and the Fed Reserve has dropped their lending rate to almost zero....
Yeah, so I voted for the little socialist....and I hope that he can find a bottom to our self inflicted mess without a hard landing...we are going to have to hit bottom and the only issue is do you hit it hard like the 1930's or do you land a little softer?
Robert,
You bring up a good point about the focus on Monica Lewisky rather than the change involved with the destruction of the Berlin Wall...
Are we capable, as a people of debating the big picture? Were Americans ever capable?
Was it that before we had Statesmen who could formulate a big picture that we could understand and now all we have are Politicians....
Have we failed ourselves? Or have our politicians failed us?
Did we quit having statesmen when we stopped focussing on the future and leaving things better for our children to being more concerned about the present and tax cuts and spending programs that benefit us personally?
That is a real interesting question...
Its like an ongoing conversation I am having with my nephew...we are discussing the recent poll that shows kids cheat on tests...he says it is true and the reason kids still believe they are good even after acknowledging that they cheated is because they cheat due to all the pressure that is put on them to be successful and do well in the future inregards to college.
I asked him if he thought that the pressure him and his generation felt was something new that no other generation experienced?
I told him that I was beat by my father if I brought home a bad report card and I asked him how many times did his dad beat him when he brought home bad grades.
I asked him exactly how successful did they think they were going to be if they achieved the grades but not the intelliegence. At some point they were going to fail...
This kid is in his first year of college and graduated from high school with a 3.5 GPA...and he said he had never looked at it that way...
I then asked him if he thought cheating was so prevelant and accepted because teachers were being personally rewarded for raising test scores....
TAO, you are singing a song that I have been singing for years - the demise of statesmanship. One of the critical junctures in our nation's histpry is the Great Compromise, or the final outcome of the debates about establishing our government. I have written about it multiple times and even did so on my first post in this blog. I won't bore you with it, as I would imagine that you already know it.
We did have statesman. People such as George Washington who wanted to return home to Virginia after the war, yet was pressed into accepting the first Presidency; he did so quite reluctantly. Compare that to the One Billion dollars spent by ego maniacs wanting an office to press an agenda....I don't deny that an ideology is good, and that opposing parties are good, but do you think if the nation was faced with the same situation as the representatives of the Constitutional Convention that we would see a Great Comptromise today? I think we would see media whores and government shutdowns, special interest moneies being thrown about, votes bought and sold not because of the best interest of a nation, but to achieve personal power or pet projects.
I give you an example of the big picture. President Lincoln personally opposed slavery in the 1860s. Yet when the Civil War (Or more appropriately to my southern brethren, The War of Northern Aggression) began his focus was the preservation of the union. He set aside his personal preference for the big picture.
When was the last time you saw a Congress work to achieving something without the partisan hoopla for months? As far as I am concerned, the government is at its best when Congress is in recess.
Robert,
If our current congress was facing a personally dire situation I think they would resign their positions and seek asylum in another country. Much like what I expect to occur in Iraq once we pull out.
I do believe that we need to move the timeline up a bit and focus more on the recent history of this country. I think we have had statesmen a in this century...I can think of Barabara Jordan, Barry Goldwater, Shirely Chissom...
I am sure that I am missing a whole bunch..but we need to look into our own history and think about about this...Barry Goldwater would never compromise his beliefs for anything. Now we have nothing but compromise.
They say that great men rise to the occasion...could it be that we never had an occasion for great men to appear? If you look at Abe Lincoln, you also need to add most of his cabinet to the list and his opponent to the list...he did not achieve greatness in a vacuum.
Plato always believed that one needed to create a class of people to govern...and I cannot help but believe that that is actually what we have achieved.
McCain and Fiengold are further examples...McCain is a very principled senator but I believe because of his flyboy background he is not really a leadership type of guy (you know as well as I do that figther pilots are a strange breed....and are very independent and do not make good leaders)
Do we as a people respect leadership and or leaders today? Could we spot a person of superior makeup and respect and follow them?
I have a problem with GWB believing that by not compromising his soul for popularity that somehow that is an achievement. Thats just stubbornness and it does not necessarily mean that you made wise decisions.
Eisenhower is another example...I always admired his speech about the military industrial complex. You may not agree with FDR but you have to admit he did lead this country and his was a great judge of people...he found Eisenhower and promoted him above quite a few other generals...and the same holds true with him finding General Marshall.
So, who else ranks as a true statesman today or in the last 50 years?
People like the founding fathers, Lincoln, Jackson are few and far between...but as a society are we incapable of creating great leaders now?
If you don't mind me putting my 2 cents worth in, I'd say that Ronald Reagan was a true statesman. He had the big picture in mind in almost all of his decisions. Being a statesman doesn't mean you won't make mistakes, it merely means that instead of looking to the next election, you're looking to the next generation.
I agree with you guys that we have a severely limited supply of statesmen at the moment.
GW said:
do we have a source for our belief that liberal social programs don't go away, just grow? How about HISTORY. Let's start with Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Welfare...
Okay, so your source for your belief that liberals only want to grow programs is history? Since social security, and welfare have grown, that is your evidence that liberals only want to grow programs regardless of their efficacy?
I suppose you do realize that the population of the US has grown since welfare began? Since social security began?
So, yes, we ARE spending more on welfare and SS, but we are also spending more on roads and a WHOLE lot more on the military. We are spending more on prisons and more on police. We are spending more on everything.
Does that mean that liberals are at fault for all of these increases - in the military, in our penal system, in roadwork? OR would it not make sense that, because we are a larger society, we are spending more?
For the record, spending on welfare (for instance) as a percentage of the population grew up until the 1970s, and then it leveled off. You can see a chart and read more about it here.
So, setting aside emotional arguments (of welfare queens and the like) and looking for more rational, dispassionate data, it does not surprise me at all that a larger society is spending more on many programs. We're dealing with more miles of road, more police work needing done, more educational needs, more social needs.
That we're spending more than we did 50 years ago is not evidence to support the thus-far unsupported charge that liberals only want to grow programs regardless of their efficacy.
Do you have any other evidence? A source or reason or anything why I should believe such a charge? Because, quite frankly, I find it unbelievable.
As I have stated, I do not know a single liberal who believes as you suggest, nor have I ever read or heard of any such liberals. I suspect they are a fiction, much like the conservatives who hate the poor.
As to the efficacy - or not - of the programs in question, I'd suggest that liberals and conservatives could unite behind a theory of efficacy. We ALL are opposed to wasting money. No one likes paying tax dollars that they feel are wasted. NO ONE. Stereotypes be damned.
And so, we create programs and end programs as they are needed or not and as they make good societal and fiscal sense. Allow me to illustrate:
We have the world's largest penal system. We also have a problem with recidivism. Too many inmates return back to prison over and over. This costs taxpayer dollars and creates a bigger gov't.
However, study after study after study shows that efforts to educate and rehabilitate prisoners leads to lower recidivism. Not only that, but they pay at such a rate as to save money.
It may cost $1 million to maintain a prisoner education program which help reduce recidivism. However, if we remove that program and recidivism increases, the resulting costs to prison, the court system and society may cost $2 million. So, while we don't want to spend $1 million to educate prisoners, it would be stupid not to, if the cost of NOT educating prisoners is $2 million.
In other words, it is fiscally responsible (and leading to a smaller gov't) to educate prisoners and fiscally irresponsible (and leading to a BIGGER gov't) to not educate prisoners. Study after study confirms this.
Therefore, conservatives and liberals should be able to unite behind programs that educate prisoners, create smaller gov't and benefit society. It's a no-brainer.
If we look at all our programs like that - not only what their costs are, but what are the costs of NOT having them - and do simple cost/benefit analysis, we could go a looong way towards uniting behind fiscal responsibility and smarter gov't.
Wouldn't you agree?
Sorry, those last two comments were from Dan at paynehollow, not Jordan. My fault.
Well, can't nobody say I don't make good cheese....
A few points to the commenter s:
1. Politics as usual, well; it will always be just that. As long as there is an opposing view,... dissent will always be vocal and -at times- heated. We can be statesmen yet vociferous at the same time.
2. That our is a mixed economy and (here it comes) semi-socialist? True. There is a grander element of socialism in our Government than I care to accept or desire. To close an eye and be blind to the fact that it has been incremental is to be naive. The genie is out of the bottle, and has eaten 3 dozen Kripy Kreme's since it left. With the aging population and demands for social entitlements to increase, it will be nearly impossible to return to pre New Deal days. Let's just accept that and work towards making slight corrections to the big ship USA... its not gonna turn on a dime.
3. Patrick M: I found your noticing of Tao's contradictory musings... well, delicious to see.
4. Trabue: I hope you don't think I glossed over your challenge of my calling the war on poverty a failure. I simply decided to make it a topic of a posting all by itself. Facts, figures, statistics, interviews... and personal experiences will be put forth. I still may not convince you, and you probably have your own set of facts and views to support a contrariwise view. I respect and have considered all of your well explained points herewith. I hope you allow me the courtesy of the same consideration in the future?
(By the way, Liberals invented eating their own..., Conservatives just perfected it,...IMHO)
5. Tao: I really respect your diligence, patience and emphasis to be fair and (when needed) correct previous "confession" sort of speak. I don't think I've ever met a more voluminous contributor to any of my postings... than you. I truly thank you for the efforts and time.... (you too Dan T.)
6. Jenn: I will see you after school..
Since I'm so far downwind, let me just respond to the two comments above.
TP: You're dead on about Powell, except he merits more tongue lashing just so the GOP doesn't wander off to the Kool-Aid stand he's working with McCain (who's his buddy now that McCain doesn't have to suck up to conservatives any more).
Tao: And you chastise me for my unrelenting focus on the perils of overreaching and intrusive government?
But at least with the tax audit I'm sure that's another point in my favor of making you a FairTax convert.
LOL TP.....It's been a long day! A long couple days I should say! Awesome post, and one day when I have more time, I give you my long awaited opinion.....( I can hear you laughing now!)
Jenn:
I hope to see you soon... your absence is noted, and (after hearing your voice in TLLTCT's BlogRadio program) I always look forward to your out-the-box commentary. Be well Girl...
TP,
Can we go back in time? No. We cannot return to the pre FDR days and we cannot return to the days of Reagan.
We operate in the world of today. We operate in a world where the concept of conservatism has been, for worse, defined by George Bush. We may know better but there are not enough of us to win an election to a school board...
Thats the reality that we have to deal with. That is also why I detest GWB so much.
If we are going to rebuild and reestablish conservative ideals then we have to do so from this day and with the history that is real...because we have to convince and or convert millions of our fellow Americans who do believe that that GWB represents conservatives.
For right or for wrong that is our legacy.
I also do not want to win in the future because someone else failed. I do not want to win because Obama destroyed this country. Beating a loser is no real win....
Besides if Obama fails, and with the situation being what it is, then conservatives do not stand a chance because it will be the real socialists and communists that end up taking over.
Thats the reality of our situation.
Wow! I was waiting for the end to make a comment. The oly thing I can really comment on is the Intelligence community. Many have heard of the woman to made it against the law for one security agency to speak or share informatin with the other agency which might have stopped 9/11....Oh yes she was part of the committee to investigate 9/11 and now she is still in there....Wow!! what do they eat in Washington. Common sense is certainly not one of their virtues. Of course there should be a complete investigation of the intelligence community and a much needed streamlining closing of about 50% of the current agencies. Look at the mess as a result of the 9/11 investigations more added..No streight line of command....It looks crazy and the release of classified material....they might get a little clerk but nothing coming down on the people who should have been cited.......I ramble....stay well....
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