When one declares oneself to be a conservative, one is not, unfortunately, thereupon visited by tongues of fire that leave one omniscient. The acceptance of a series of premises is just the beginning. After that, we need constantly to inform ourselves, to analyze and to think through our premises and their ramifications. We need to ponder, in the light of the evidence, the strengths and the weaknesses, the consistencies and the inconsistencies, the glory and the frailty of our position, week in and week out. Otherwise, we will not hold our own in a world where informed dedication, not just dedication, is necessary for survival and growth.

William F. Buckley Jr., Feb 8, 1956, NR

Wednesday, February 25, 2009

So What Is A Conservative? Guest post by TAO

I seriously debated whether or not to post this because I am tired of the same old rhetoric that has been taking place here at CC. When we started this blog we had a vision but it seems that we can't even get past defining what beliefs make up a conservative. If we can't agree on what conservatism is about, how the heck can we bring others to our cause? Frankly, what I have seen lately is disheartening. If the public opinion of Obama starts to drop, where is the conservative movement? Are we there, with a solution? With a vision? With anything? Have we thought about how to win people over or are we simply content to sit on our blogs and complain about how things aren't going our way. This was a well written post about what conservatism is about and two words stick out.....realistic and rational. Is that how you would define yourselves? I certainly hope so because that is what this country needs right now. I have highlighted a few of the statements that really stood out to me.

So What Is A Conservative by TAO

WOW! Post one favorable article about Obama and the hate mail is overwhelming and the followers are falling like leaves in a fall windstorm!

So, lets ask the existential question: What is a Conservative?

Yes, and I mean 'existental' like in existentialsim; like in starting from disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.

Traditional Conservatives believed in smaller government, lower taxes, balanced budgets, isolationism, and in the concept of live and let live.

Now, very simply, did Ronald Reagan give us smaller government, lower taxes, balanced budgets, isolationism, and or did he remove the government and society from infringing on our personal lives? Not really. Bill Clinton actually gave us smaller government and balanced budgets but he failed in a couple of other areas; so he is also a 'not really' too but since he never claimed to be conservative then that really comes as no surprise. Did George Bush, Sr. achieve any of the conservative values that some of us hold dear? Not really, but then again he never claimed to be a true conservative.

Then we come to George Bush, Jr., and we have the biggest government we have ever saw, lower taxes, the greatest deficit we have seen, and he has put our personal liberties at risk all over the place but we allowed it because it was done for national defense. I will not even discuss isolationism....

We need to accept the fact that 20 years of supply side economics, the great idea that Ronald Reagan implemented and George Bush, Jr., followed up on has led us to the economic collapse that we are experiencing today. Economically we have turned back the clock to the 70's in regards to some statistics, the 80's for others, and now the stock market is at 1997 levels.

Now along comes Barack Obama and the hatred and anger felt by a newer version of conservative thought is just appalling. Now, you can point to the liberals and their hatred of George Bush as a justification for your own actions but true conservatives are realistic and rational and they do not need to point fingers to justify their own actions.

Now, one thing about conservatives is that they were never followers; they would rather walk alone than blindly follow anyone. I cannot sit here and and find pride in myself nor try to justify the fact that I want a President to fail. I didn't want George Bush to fail but I did not agree with his decisions in a lot of his policies and I cannot let him hide behind the fact that he kept us safe or he was strong on defense. The truth of the matter is a President is responsible for everything and the success and or failure of his tenure is determined by the totality of his actions.

That is true no matter who the man is or which party the man professes allegiance to.

This financial meltdown was as predictable as a scheduled freight train; it is hard for me to believe that I am the only one that saw it coming and sold all my investments in 2008. It really isn't hard to understand that you have not really created any economic wealth if the median household income is stagnating.

It also isn't all that hard to grasp that concept that if you believe that WWII was what ended the depression then you also believe that government spending does create economic growth because WWII represents nothing more than immense government spending for war material. In this particular case the government all centralized economic planning.

When David Stockman, Ronald Reagan, George Bush, and Dick Cheney are all running around claiming that "deficits don't matter" all conservatives should have an issue with that because we know that deficits do matter. It makes no difference who the President is or what his party affiliation is.

Alan Greenspan did a wonderful job killing the internet bubble with increasing interest rates. Why did he not do the same with rising real estate values? A bubble is a bubble. Now Alan has gone from being a disciple of Ayn Rand to being a socialist by claiming, "...we just might have to nationalize banks once every 100 years or so to get a fresh start...." That wasn't Barack Obama that is trying to nationalize the banks its actually conservative republicans.

This country is a mess; it is a mess due to greed and arrogance. Both of which existed well before Barack Obama became a Senator let alone President.

I am sorry but I do not want him to fail. Because if he fails this country will suffer deeper and longer than what is necessary; that means all of us will suffer.

I may not like the stimulus package anymore than I liked the bailout package and I am not going to switch to calling on TARP and the other a jobs program. TARP is a bailout package for our financial system and the stimulus package is nothing more than worthless tax cuts and spending.

Neither of which would have been necessary if we had had true leadership in the White House and in Washington over the past 20 years.

We all know that all economic decisions are based upon the simple equation of supply and demand. For 20 years we fertilized supply with tax cuts and various other programs and no matter what tax cuts are wealth redistribution if they are not fair and across the board. Programs that benefit the poor are income redistribution and tax cuts that favor the rich are wealth redistribution. What cuts one way also cuts the other.

A majority of Americans were disgusted with George Bush and that was why they voted for Barack Obama in record numbers. That is the way representative democracy works. That is why, if you want to keep the party in power that you believe represents your values the best then you should demand that they do not rob and steal or take bribes, that they should not hit on male interns, and that they should make government smaller and balance the budget.

If you truly believe in the principles of conservatism then it would seem logical that it would be easier to expect the party that you support to believe in your principles and govern by those principles than it would be to expect the opposition to believe as you do.

We have already nationalized AIG, that occured under the Bush Administration. We will have a 40% stake in Citibank by the end of the week and by April that will be up to 60%; that is more than half which means they will be nationalized and the same thing will eventually befall Bank of America. It may not be what the American people want but the executives of Citibank, Bank of America, and quite a few others have no problem with it.

So, what does that tell YOU about free markets when the titans of capitalism are begging to be nationalized? When people begin to claim that something is TOO BIG TO FAIL...thats socialism plain and simple.

One thing conservatives understand is that it isn't just the poor or minorities that expect something for nothing from the government; some of our biggest and most powerful companies and quite a few rich people expect the same thing. Thats why government must play fair and impartial; something it has failed to do for the last 20 years.

Sorry I cannot entertain you with Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity rants; no one is paying me big bucks to type bullshit....

If Barack Obama can cut the "inherited" deficit (which is what he really said) in half by 2013 then good. But I also want to know what he plans to do about the deficits he will create; I also want to see his budget and see if he plays any of the tricks that are so popular in Washington in regards to our true deficit. I will also want to see how sincere everyone in Washington is about dealing with our future liabilities.

If a man is willing to roll up his sleeves and deal with the reality of our current situation then I do not care what color he is or what party he associates with. I will get right in the trenches and help. Its not about the man, its not about the party, its about the country; my country and yours.

But I am not interested in leadership that 'fiddles' while the country slowly crumbles and burns. If being conservative means hoping and praying for the failure of a black liberal President then I am not that type of conservative. If being a conservative means doing the right thing, putting your country first, and respecting the rights and opinions of others then by God sign me up!

Conservatives are realitistic and rational; they will call a spade a spade. They are not bimbo cheerleaders for one party over the other. If you are a conservative then you believe in individualism and you respect thinking for ones self both by yourself and by others. Its not about seeking out only those that agree with you or finding comfort in being part of a commentators fan club.

Its not that complicated and it does not involve doing mental flips and turns. Its pretty cut and dry and direct to the point.

20 comments:

N.C. Mom said...

Amen! Very well said. I would disagree that tax cuts for the "rich" are wealth redistribution. In a system that is currently inequitable, cutting taxes for those who are paying an inordinately larger share than others is a partial correction of this injustice, not a furtherance of it. But as you said, true conservatives don't blindly agree with each other on all points. Thank you for your candid words of wisdom.

TAO said...

Actually, If you look at our tax situation you realize that the most taxes are paid by our middle class (people earning wages of between 50,000 and 150,000 a year when totalling income and payroll taxes) The very richest of our society pay considerably less because their income is not paid as wages but rather as interest, dividends, and capital gains. In 2006 Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the US paid 17.7% as taxes while his assistant who earns $60,000 paid 30%.

In 2006 87 of the companies in the S&P500 made sizeable profits and actually got refunds.

Our tax structure, as it is today penalizes the middle class and small business...which are the backbone of this country.

The poor have their supporters and the rich have their lobbyists and the folks in the middle have nothing.

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

"If being conservative means hoping and praying for the failure of a black liberal President then I am not that type of conservative."

TAO - what does race have to do with any of this ? You said you don't care about color but when speaking of opposing Obama that is the first thing you mention.

I DO NOT CARE WHAT COLOR HE IS OR ISN'T. What I care about is that he is using his agenda to take this country in a direction contrary to what I belive as a conservative and what I understand that this nation was founded upon.

That is why I cannot support what he is doing even if he is, "rolling up his sleeves."

I will not stand in the trenches next to him fighting for things that are contrary to my conservative beliefs and convictions. That would be a betrayal to my country and my beliefs.

I opposed everything that Bush did which was contrary to those same beleifs and convictions. I have been disgusted with the GOP for abandoning conservative principles for the sake of power.

Now according to what you write because Obama is ,"rolling up his sleeves," then because I love my country and don't want to see it fail I should stand with him and fight for what he is doing.

It is because I love my country that I have to stand AGAINST what he is doing because as I see it it spells disaster and as such is BAD for my country.

As an example if in your neighborhood,your next door neigbors had allowed their house and yard to run down and the new guy down the block decided to roll up his sleeves and start ripping your neighbors yard up and going into his house taking out the things that this new guy thought should not be there, do you help him because he is doing something even if it's wrong ?

Well you argument about Obama is similar. He's rolling his sleeves up and taking my country a direction I beleive and know is wrong and it would be just as wrong for me to fight beside him. It then becomes my Constitutional responsibility to oppose him in everything I believe is wrong and that is what I plan to continue to do.

It is not party, color, but a true beleif that what he is doing is wrong for the country and in total opposition to my conservative values and beliefs and to side with him because he is doing something would be total hypocrisy!

Jennifer said...

Ken, you make a valid point. To blindly follow a president just because he is the president is foolish. I didn't do it for Bush nor will I for Obama. It is our duty and responsibility to stand up against what we feel is wrong.

I think the issue arises when conservatives oppose him because of who he is rather than the issues themselves and there is way too much of that going around. I am against this enormous stimulus bill. It was foolish and I am being kind.

What I have seen lately though is hatred to the point that he could cure cancer and people would still be against him. That is not conservatism. It's not practical, helpful or accomplishing anything. If Obama fails like conservatives hope for, who is going to pick up the pieces.? Nobody has come along representing conservatism and that concerns me. I think people need to be concerned with finding the right people to represent our beliefs. I don't like Obama, don't get me wrong, but who do we have as conservatives, that can represent us? Jindal? I don't have any confidence that he could do us justice. Has anyone addressed how to add confidence in conservatism? Right now after Bush, it has left a bad taste in their mouths and unless we start putting other alternatives out there, we are going to become less and less signifigant.

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

First Jenn, we are never going to find a conservative who will be perfect and that all of us will agree with. That is the beauty of individuaism and freedom. With both we have the ability and liberty to think and beleive as we chose and not be a camp follower as many of the liberal minions are.

That said, there is a strong moevement in conservative circles and a revitalizing from that which is beginning in the GOP. Steele is cleaning house. He is even looking for conservative candidates to run against RINO's like Spector, Collins and Snowe.

The wake up call is being listened to but it will not be an over night cure. There are several who are beginning to stand out besides just Jindal. Mark Sanford of SC, of course Palin and others are starting to rise.

But the real change is not going to happen at the top of the ticket alone. There are grass roots movements all over the country that are taking the conservative message to local, state and regional levels.

So hang in there. You have the unfortunate circumstance of living in liberal land and as a result discouragement is easy when all you see is what is around you.

Also discourse even when it is between like minds is healthy. It promotes thinking and thinking promotes action and action promotes change and response. It all works hand in hand.

Also remember some of what you are seeing as blanket hatred to ward Obama is anger over what he is doing and not particularly to the man himself. Politics is passionate and anger when seeing wrong as Obama's agenda is promotes a certain responses that can come across as anger to an individual.

What I am seeing is more in line with disgust at what he is doing and not just him in particular.

There will always be those regardless of ideology conservative or libersl whose anger is toward people not policy.

Remember the true anger that the left had toward Bush in which most could not tell what they hated other than the man himself.

It plays on both sides of the political coin. But as a whole most are angered because of what Obama is doing and not because of race or the man himself.

Stand true and strong to your convictions and beliefs and that my friend will sustain you through the next two years.

Joe said...

"...20 years of supply side economics, has led us to the economic collapse that we are experiencing today."

That just is not true. Plainly and simply.

The supply side economics espoused by Ronald Reagan was never implimented, because congress failed to keep its word to cut spending.

Congress is and always has been the problem, because they are more focused on getting elected or re-elected than anything else. That is why they always choose to spend...they are "buying" votes.

They ALL do it, Republicans and Democrats.

TAO said...

Ken, You might see the color of Obama BUT you cannot deny that alot of folks on our side of the fence do. All you have to do is read some of the comments that have been posted over the last two weeks to this blog to get that point.

IF Obama can cut the deficit in half then I will be impressed. IF he achieves half of what he has promised then I will be impressed and I can work with him even though I do not agree with him.

I have this fatal attraction with reason. Realistically our deficits are going to cause us to raise taxes and cut spending. There is no other way to return this country to economic sanity. Thats our reality. Now, if he can control congress that would be a big first step and so far he has not done so.

Your neighbor and yard analogy just doesn't fly...we are not talking about our individual property but rather about something all of us share jointly.

In the 90's Clinton and the Republicans in Congress went nuts giving banks and Wall Street everything they could ask for to create wealth. Thus we lost the checks and balances that are natural in a capitalistic system. The big got bigger and they dominated. They got so big that Bush just kept feeding them whatever they asked for....and now they have imploded and all of us are affected.

So, you believe we should do nothing. Lots of Americans believe we should do nothing but guess what...the powers that be want to do something and all of us that vote keep re electing our congressmen back into office...for being a bunch that has the lowest approval ratings anyone can imagine then it should be surprising how many of them get re elected all the time...

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

TAO - The problem with these bad officials being re-elected is two fold. First a decent slate of good conservatives has not been available for some time. Michael Stelle has made this one of his prime duties at the RNC.

Second most voters have the opinion that everyone in Congress is a crook, EXCEPT my representative. So they vote the blagarts back in.

I also beleive that there is a better way than to spend and spend and grow government the way that Obama is doing.

The People are the best and only true stimulus of the economy. The problem Obama has is that he does not trust the people he trusts government.

Tax rate cuts to individuals and business immediatly puts money in the pockets and as such will stimulate through spending by the people and business.

Suspending Capital Gains will spur investment once again both in the markets and by business having money to hire and expand.

Government never created a job that lasted more than the time it took to build a government project. Temp jobs at best and even those were made in accordance to who was owed a favor and not to increase jobs.

Private enterprise creates jobs. Incentives like capital gains suspension and business rate cuts allows money to flow and business to grow thus creating real jobs.

This will also help to shore up banks as they will have cash flow due to increased revenue from individual spending and business growth etc.

Eliminating the mark to market practice will also make an immediate effect as it will allow solvancy in the market now.

Government never solves anything except growing government. Once grown it is never reversed and that is another reason why Obama's plan are bad for America.

The Governor's who are talkingaboout not taking the money are concerned about the way it willgrow their state governments and then when the money dries uop they will be left with forced expansion of programs they will have to find funds to pay for.

BTW one of thoe Governors is the Democrat Governor from Tenn.

Finally whenever legislation for spending is put together it ALWAYS contains pork that does nothing and this 787 billion is no dofferent. In fact most of what is contained in the bill does NOTHING to stimulate anything and that also is bad for America.

The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Liberal Lie The Conservative Truth said...

TAO - I forgot to add that along with the tax rate cuts and the suspension of capital gains taxes, there would have to be hard and real spending cuts and elimination of unnecessary and wasteful programs. These cuts would have to be deep and true not just talk or rhetoric.

This would also go toward attacking the deficit which would also have a growth affect on the economy and a positive reaction in the market.

I would also keep each budget withing the government at previous levels rather than the automatic increase that always takes place. The waste here is ridiculous as agencies go on a spending binge at the end of a budget year in order to spend unused funds to show a zero balance to be eligable for a budget increase in the next budget year.

This would force accountability and also go toward decreasing the deficit and shrinking the government at the same time once again spuring economic growth and market gains.

ablur said...

I fail to see conservatism in the writing here. I see it in some of the comments but the article attempting to define conservatism comes woefully short.
I see a taste of independance and small government but to conclude that we should except big government from any sitting president or leader is blasphamus to the point.

Davy Crockett set what I would declare as a key principle of conservatism. This key is sadly lacking in modern government and it is what is causing the continued economic problems. Please go and read this article.

We need to get the government back to doing what it is designed to do.

CB said...

First, Tao, you don't support the premise "Traditional Conservatives believed in smaller government, lower taxes, balanced budgets, isolationism, and in the concept of live and let live." Especially not the isolationism and there is a distinction between "limited" and "smaller" government. The principle of live and let live was around but so was slavery in the southern colonies.

Second, Joe is right, what you said about Reagan and "supply side" economics is just not true. Reagan never had a Republican Congress and George Bush could qualify as a conservative only if you're purpose is to impugn conservatism. He expanded the department of Education when conservatives wanted to eliminate it. He created another huge entitlement program with the prescription drug benefit, never vetoed a spending bill and gave us the bailout to nowhere and the auto bailout.

Third, both my parents are black, unlike Barry and no one has been more critical than me! Do you believe me to be self-loathing? Barry's heritage is of no consequence to me but his absolute authoritarian leftism is!

Jen, I'm sorry but I strongly disagree with you. Let me tell you why. My youngest child has cerebral palsy. He walks with forearm crutches to keep his balance. There is a child in his class that has anger issues and a rough home environment and I was aware that he kicked my son, Devon, in the stomach earlier in the year. I made sure that he was ok but I didn't get involved because he will need to learn to handle that kind of thing as he gets older. Well, as it turns out, Tyler, the little boy that kicked Devon, has been bullying him all year. My wife told me about some incidents that I won't go into but our concern is Devon's safety. We are insisting that he be removed from school tomorrow morning.

To me, America is like my son. Now I can't snatch Obama up like I could Tyler, but that's how I view Barry. He is a bully, but an adult bully, a thug! He is a liar, he is deceitful and he is trying to hurt my son, literally. He is taking money from my children, he is killing their prospects to enjoy the America I enjoy, president or not, black or not, he must be stopped!

Jennifer said...

I understand what you are trying to get at, but the difference is that you are concerned with your son's welfare. As a parent that is your responsibility and as a parent it is your right to decide what you think is right or wrong. You have the right and responsibility to do whatever it takes to protect your son. I understand and respect that.

To compare it to a country doesn't make sense in my opinion. A country is made up of many different views and unfortunately, they chose Obama. It was not my choice and I'm not happy about it but apparently the majority of people didn't agree with you or me. Now, we have to live with the consequences. Not necessarily like them, but live with them. When it comes to your children, your have complete authority to make the decisions you think best. Not so when dealing with our country. Don't get me wrong, speak out about the stimulus bill or other actions that you are against. I don't like it one little bit and have said that over and over again.

I just don't understand why it's not enough just to fight him when we feel like he is acting like a schmuck and encourage him when he does something that we feel is beneficial. I find it hard to believe that there will not be any things that he does in his presidency that we approve of. Do we still condemn him because of who he is even when it benefits us? I don't understand that mentality?

By all means, CB, you should fight against what you think is wrong. I have no issue with that. What I can't understand though is the hatred that blinds us to anything he might do that helps us.

I don't know if I am coming across right, probably not, I don't know. I do not like Obama. I don't know how to make that any clearer but conservatism is not about hatred. That is what I am rallying against so much.

TAO said...

Jennifer brings up a good point, Obama won a majority and that makes him President. CB when you say "he must be stopped" what exactly do you mean?

Why should he be stopped? Because you do not like him? He won a majority; that does not make him a bully.

Did you see Bush as a bully too? Of course not.

I voted against Bush in 2004 because I realized that this country was headed in the direction that is was...

The reality of our political system is really very simple; most of what passes for conservative thought today is actually just elitism and a general disdain for democracy and the masses.

So, when a democratic president wins we think the masses have been duped and lied to...

We believe that the masses are just vote for their petty self interests and for whats in it for themselves never once acknowledging that the same holds true for ourselves.

We constantly are quick to point out that democrats buy votes with their policies but we refuse to acknowledge that Republicans do the same thing.

In your example of your son, obama is not the bully in the class but rather the Teacher or Leader of the class.

You also acknowledge that the bully has been doing this for a year...so was the bully George Bush before January?

Doubt it.

Supply side economics is not a conservative principle and never will be. It has never been tested or proven...and conservatives don't just jump on fads.

I acknowledge that I believe in the middle class and small business as being the backbone of this country. If the median household income is 44,000 dollars then middle class is not someone who makes $250,000 a year or more.

If we had elected a republican president and had a majority of republicans in congress they would be spending money right now to stimulate the economy....but then for most people on this blog that would be okay because it would be republicans spending the money.

The basic trouble is big business wants government to spend money and they do not worry about the deficit. Big business makes money when money is spent and they really do not care from who or where the money comes from.

If taxes get too high big business has ways available to lower their taxes.

Its the middle class, the working poor, and small business that have to stick it out and be burdened with the deficit.

I hate the deficit but I also realize that the deficit was something created by liberals and conservatives. If Obama does live up to his promise of cutting the deficit and reviewing every dollar spent by government then he would in effect become the first financial conservative president we have ever had.

Not that I would expect anyone on this blog to agree to that! :)

ablur said...

Obama won a majority because there wasn't any alternative running against him. Third party candidates didn't even get honorable mention in this election.
His only oposition was a man who couldn't decide what he was. Look at McCain's voting record and you would be hard pressed to decide if he was a liberal or a moderate. He never was a conservative.
For those who really don't know what a conservative is the self grandizing of Bush junior as compasionate conservative only turned out to be a slap in the face to real conservatives. He functioned more as a mockery then a conservative. It was already pointed out above how he never vetoed a spending bill nor took any steps to reduce government. Simply sticking the label of conservatism on Bush did more to destroy the conservative movement than anything else I can think of.
With that said, is there any wonder how Obama got a majority in the election? Change was needed but change in the wrong direction or greater change in the direction Bush was already going is not what the people really wanted.
More pointed would be the people really didn't know what they wanted. They only knew that what we had wasn't it. Bush had already changed conservative into a bad word and the only glaring alternative was liberal. The ability to redefine words and set agenda was being won by the left and the election demonstrates this.
This is not hate Obama. Many conservative groups lashed out against Bush as well for going the wrong way. The drone of hate Bush has faded and the anger of going the wrong way can finally be heard.

CB said...

ablur,

Excellent!

Jennifer said...

Ablur....I couldn't agree more.

Geroge Bush did more to hurt conservatism than anyboddy. But truly whose fault is that? Why were conservatives silent? Why wasn't there more of an outcry against what he did? Why do people still defend the man like he was some kind of hero?

McCain was a joke and everybody knows it, but again, whose fault is that? Where were we when he became the Republiccan candidate?

I actually think you are spot on in your comment. I think Obama won for many reasons, but a big one was because he wasn't "George Bush"....that my friend is no one's fault but the republicans. I didn't vcte for Obama, but obviously enough people did. The democrats offered change and the people wanted it too. McCain wasn't a strong enough candidate and that is not the democrats fault. Conservatives only hurt themselves and continue to do so by appearing fanatical to anyone who bothers to look. It may sound like I am picking up for Obama, but I am not. I am just trying to point out why we are where we are in the first place. Maybe the anger should be placed with George Bush, who if he had governed like a conservative we may not be in this situation at all.

ablur said...

Jenn-
We had real conservative candidates running but with the bad taste of GW and his so called conservative bonifieds none of them had a chance. The word conservative had such a bad taste people would do anything to avoid the label and avoid anyone who would claim to be one.

The problem as you clearly stated was the fact that the republicans or conservatives didn't have a voice in the market place that gave people hope and demonstrated a new direction. The dems had the advantage of pointing backward to the spend happy congress of republicans.

The odd thing was that peoples stomach turned over republican spending but we are supposed to cheer democrat spending.

Listen people, this is my money. This is your money. This is the people of America's money. This is not there personal expence account that they can do anything they wish. If they want to do these crazy things, do it with their personal money. If it warrents our money as a people then get out and campaign for it. Ameircans are giving people and donations will poor in for anything of real value.
Stop taking my money and gun point and giving it away without my concent.
There my friends is the key to conservative thinking.

CB said...

Jenn,

I hate to see you go but I understand and I'm probably as responsible as anyone for the sharp differences that have emerged here. I used my son's example to demonstrate the clarity and urgency I see. For me, what Obama wants to do and is doing is not just wrong, it is dangerous. It is the equivalent of an assault on my family. In my opinion, if we don't fight now, right now, we will lose the opportunity.

Of course, Barry is not alone, he is accompanied by a cast of characters that are spiritually aligned with him. At this point we know they are trying to stifle dissent, they are going to manipulate the census and the voter roles with your money, they have attacked private citizens and even members of the media who raise questions. They are assaulting private business activity. Barney Frank is going after Northern Trust because they had a party after sponsoring a golf outing. They were forced to take TARP money, they didn't ask and couldn't refuse. Now, after the fact, the congressman who chairs the financial services committee calls them out for doing business, for trying to profit!

I wish more people understood where we are and where we're headed because right now, it would be to late for Paul Revere's ride.

TAO said...

CB...

Well, I may actually take your idea and run with it...

Reality is conservatives, Republicans, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and all the folks that apologized for George Bush over the last 8 years are what got Obama elected.

Want to gripe about Pelosi (who I absolutely hate...) well, what about Hassert and Delay...they were quite a pair in their days...

Everyone is so busy taking care of business today that they are losing sight of where we are headed.

obama is setting aside another 750 billion for bank bailouts? Another 600 billion for healthcare bailouts...

GM is burning through 30 billion a year?

Whew...its going to get worse because the news keeps getting worse not better.

Then, when I look at my own business I realize that making shirts in the USA is now only a dollar more expensive than making them in Honduras...thats from buying cotton to delivery to my distro center. We are about to enter a world where we are competing against third world countries. THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING.

Yet, everyone wants to cut the capital gains tax...who in their right mind would want to invest in stocks right now or for a long time to come.

Sorry, I never marched to the party platform inregards to conservative ideals. Never was much of a follower...

Still plan to keep my independance until someone shows me a candidate that not only talks the talk but also walks the walk...

If I was the CEO of Northern Trust I would call Barney out and give the money back and then let Barney start his shit....

But as far as stifling dissent...thats nothing new for politicians...Bush and Cheney did a damn good job at that too...

Sorry, I don't see anything new or frightening in Obama he is just better at things both parties have done for years.

If we are going to do anything then its time for Paul Revere to ride again....

Otherwise nothing will change...my senators voted against the stimulus and now they are wanting to know how much of it I want...

I told them none.