When one declares oneself to be a conservative, one is not, unfortunately, thereupon visited by tongues of fire that leave one omniscient. The acceptance of a series of premises is just the beginning. After that, we need constantly to inform ourselves, to analyze and to think through our premises and their ramifications. We need to ponder, in the light of the evidence, the strengths and the weaknesses, the consistencies and the inconsistencies, the glory and the frailty of our position, week in and week out. Otherwise, we will not hold our own in a world where informed dedication, not just dedication, is necessary for survival and growth.

William F. Buckley Jr., Feb 8, 1956, NR

Saturday, February 7, 2009

All Enemies Foreign and Domestic



John Locke's Second Treatise on Government details a fundamental truth, a natural law, if you will with regard to man. He said that every man ought to own himself (not be the subject of a king or tyrant) and that he ought to own the fruit of his labor. In other words, he said that man is entitled to life, liberty and estate (property). The, I believe, divinely inspired, Thomas Jefferson, when tasked for making the case for rebellion against the crown, tapped Locke's wisdom as well as that of another Scotsman, Hutcheson, who fleshed out the concept of unalienable rights.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Is there any American that argues that this isn't the essence of what separates us from the rest of the world? On the steps of the Washington Mall, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. called these "magnificent words."

To reinforce the significance of Locke's and Hutcheson's thoughts and Jefferson's recognition of their centrality to the American ethos, our founding charter, The Constitution contains the words, more closely resembling Locke's concept. This concept is so important that is contained within our Bill of Rights. The 5th amendment's "due process clause" contains these words, "nor shall any person...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." The 14th amendment was intended to secure the rights of former slaves. Again, in section 1 of the 14th amendment in the due process clause these words are written "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." I think our framers made their point, life, liberty and property are sacred to Americans and central to who we are. On another thread, I will tell you how and why those words are responsible for the greatest economic juggernaut in history if you don't understand already but we have more urgent business now.

In 1848, Karl Marx and Frederick Engels summed up what they hoped to accomplish in the Communist Manifesto in one phrase, the elimination of private property. Private property rights in this country, that which makes us distinctly American, have been under assault since then. Private property rights secure freedom and liberty from the tyranny of government. The Lochner decision, Williamson vs. Lee Optical and others have eroded the concept of property rights to replace them with the nebulous concept of "economic rights." Economic rights erode property rights. Education, health care and social security are not unalienable rights. Unemployment compensation and food stamps are not unalienable rights.

Patriots threw tea from the struggling British East India Company, a monopoly granted by the crown to enforce its right to impose the Stamp Act, into Boston Harbor for the equivalent of today what would be less than a dime. From that time until 1913, there was no tax on income in America. In 1848, Marx and Engels urged "heavy progressive taxation of income."

Thanks for the history lesson Bardo, so friggin' what?

Along comes the 44th President of the United States, having explained in clear terms that what he wants to do is to dismantle what makes us distinctly American and he is doing it with alacrity. In the audio above, Obama describes what he thinks is America's fundamental flaw, the Constitution ought to list what government's obligations are to its citizens, including the redistribution of wealth. If the recording was a little too professorial for you, he told "Joe the Plumber" that he wanted to spread the wealth around. Has he spread some wealth?

The American concept, post civil war, post Wilson and FDR, has never been under more threat than it is today. Barack Obama is an intelligent man who has just pulled off a coup on the American way of life without a shot being fired. Why should I fear islamo fascists when the person at the helm of my government wants to destroy what I hold dear faster than they and apparently with our permission?

39 comments:

TAO said...

So, your point is?

Is Obama planning on taxing us?

We are already taxed! At least most of us...there appears to be some Senators and other who do not pay their taxes.

I do not know about the rest of you but I did not jump from 1913, 1848, or 1776 to 2009.

Truthfully 2009 isn't much different than 2008 and 2008 didn't have much in common with 1913, 1848, or 1776 either.

So, you want to turn back the clock to those better days?

Is that your point?

Want to go back to a time when people worked the fields and died by 35?

I don't know about you but I kind of enjoy the benefits of electricity and indoor plumbing. After last week I realize how precious having heat and telephone service is!

So, we have advanced and the world has changed. Since 1776 we have freed the blacks, given women the right to vote, and have the luxury of having our kids become educated through a public school system rather than having to help in the fields.

So, lets bring the concepts and beliefs of the founding fathers into the 20th century and then maybe we can eventually get current to the 21st century.

I am not a real fan of "Back to the Future" as I realize I have to embark on the journey to the future from where I am today.

Against heavy taxation? Then quit borrowing.

Against bigger government? Then quit adding benefits to medicare and stop with the stupid education reforms. Oh, those were Republican ideas so we won't talk about how far 'compassionate conservatives' 'free market guys' and all of that have also dragged us down the road of big government, centralized planning, and socialism.

Nice, historical bit of emotional rhetoric there CB....

But absolutely useless in dealing with the issues of today.

Political Romance Novel at best. Yep, we are along way from where we started....

I got a call from Mitch McConnell's office the other day informing me what he is working on on for the benefit of small business owners....

Sounded to me like socialism is already here...I guess maybe Obama justs wants to give everyone the benefit of government freebies....

Arthurstone said...

Conservatives hyperventilating about President Obama sound like kids sitting around the campfire telling ghost stories & scaring the bejabbers out of one another.

A few points.

The graduated income tax is here to stay.

As is the Federal Reserve.

And yes, you get to keep your stuff.

And no, the work camps aren't being build to house the 'real Americans'.

My sense is life will go on much as it has in the past. Better than almost anywhere else in the world.

But by all means indulge your paranoid fantasies.

It's a free country. A country where anyone can be a 'Millionaire by Thirty'.

If they apply themselves.

Actually they can't but they can buy the book and help the guy who wrote it become a millionaire.

Jennifer said...

Sometimes I hate getting into these discussions because it shows my ignorance, but I will take a stab at it. I guess I am glutton for punishment........

I don't want government spending.....I don't care WHO proposes it. I think we are focusing too much on who did it rather than focusing on the damage it did and will do to our country if we don't stop it.

I don't want my money funding overseas abortions nor do I want it being used for education....that should be done at the state level.

The "Distribution of Wealth" is a disaster waiting to happen in my opinion. I am actually curious if someone can explain how it would be beneficial. My simplistic view is if you tax big business to death, they cannot afford it. They then lay off workers, and it spirals down from there. That is not a good way to save our economy.......we need to stop spending money on crap that we do NOT need.

TAO said...

CB,

The other day you commented on the fact that in 18 months this recession will be over and everything will return to normal.

I came upon a graph that shows how worse off we are now versus where we stood at the same time in regards to the recessions in 1991 and 2001.

Its bad. In regards to job losses, there is no bump it is just a total freefall.

Now, we have spent a trillion dollars on the Iraq War, a couple trillion bailing out Wall Street and.....

What now, you want a President to do nothing? I know that we are charitable people but do you really believe that we can deal with an economy that is obviously unraveling in real time right in front of our faces and we are going to be able to become self reliant overnight?

Now, I believe if Reagan had 20 years ago lived up to his words of cutting government spending while cutting taxes we could have been in a very different situation than we are today.

I believe we need to find the bottom for our economy to land on really quick, even if that means putting in a false bottom with some pretty drastic government action.

THEN, we need to have a national conversation where we discuss together what type of government we want and what we expect from the government.

Our government has become the ATM machine for the poor, the rich, for companies, and for a whole bunch of useless but well connected people.

Then we need to build that government and that country again because someplace along the way we have lost our way.

Its not just the liberals but also the conservatives...WE ALL HAVE LOST OUR WAY.

Our economy is the central nervous system of our nation and it is very critical that we all accept that money makes everything else possible.

We also need to realize that sometimes leaving things alone is just as bad as too much involvement.

I get tired of all the forms I have to fill out regularly for the labor and commerce department but at the same time I do not want an economy where people like Bernie Madoff run around unchecked and out of control.

I do not want a country that does not believe in God but at the same time I do not want to turn this country into a bunch of rabid religious nuts like that Phelps bunch.

I know I cannot have everything I want because I realize that I have to share this country with people that think differently than I do and that believe differently than I do.

But we need to move the conversation beyond the point of bashing each others heads in and blaming each other for the demise of this country.

Based on that chart that I recently posted there appears to be enough 'demise' to spread it around so everyone can have their part.

If things do not turn around quickly the majority of Americans are going to want to 'get' the people who ruined their lives....

That is probably not a good time to try to begin preaching the gospel of conservatism because the majority of Americans believe that it was conservatives who got us into this mess.

We can preach ideals all we want but ideals right now are just a hobby of the well off.

I have employees who work for me who are worried and I have never laid off an employee in my whole career and we have more work in January 2009 and February 2009 than we did last year for the same months.

TAO said...

Jennifer,

All government spending is wasteful. The government is by nature inefficient and ineffective. I do not care if it is Health and Human Services, the Agriculture Department, or the Defense Department.

I don't want to fund abortions, condoms, or education either. In regards to education, even at the local level that will involve taxation and waste. Local Governments are as wasteful as the federal government is.

But as long as the government gives us lower taxes no one notices the deficit.

I think the government should break out social security and medicare taxes and put them in a separate account not comingled with Federal Revenue. No more IOU's for that income.

Then no more budgeting tricks...put all appropriations in one bill for the next year and then tell us what our taxes will be if they approve that one and only spending bill. That gets us to balanced budgets right then and there.

But you have to realize that 'redistribution of wealth' is something that we have always done. You see it as something that poor people get at your expense but under supply side economics and the Bush tax cuts it was something that rich people and those who earn their living from investments get at your expense.

I buy a piece of equipment for my business and I get all sorts of tax breaks. You buy a lawn mower for your home and you get no tax break.

Our tax code is not progressive or regressive but rather dysfunctional.

Right now we want to put money in the hands of the poor and the unemployed because we know that they will immediately go out and spend that money and all of the money. People higher up the economic food chain will save the money. We need to get economic activity going so that businesses can sell things, bring in income and pay people...

If everyone quits buying then our economy grinds to a halt.

All the Bush stimulus in 2008 and half of the Obama stimulus is trying to do is throw money back at people to get them to go shopping. We are basically borrowing from the future in an attempt to get our economy jump started again.

Right now the Republicans could cut my business taxes to nothing and I would not hire one more person, I would not buy any new equipment because I do not make business decisions based upon tax breaks...I make them based on the economy.

If I give you a thousand dollars I bet you and your husband would pay down bills and or save the money because you are scared of the future. If I give the money to some poor person I am pretty sure they are going to spend it all before the weekend is up.

As a businessman I would rather give the thousand right now to the poor person.

Our government has no choice but to spend at least a trillion dollars right now what is sad is that the best ideas they could come up with is condoms, abortion, weatherization, and school snacks.

Then Republicans could only come up with letting businesses carryback their losses another year so everyone is going to run off and amend their taxes....but companies that lost money in 2008 and going out of business in 2009 so that is no big deal. Then they come up with allowing individuals a bigger tax break for buying homes and cars...well, no one is going to buy either until they know home prices are going to stabilize and or which car company is still going to be in business this time next year. Not much there.

Then the healthcare deduction is just a way for Republicans to get companies to quit offering insurance to their employees so you have to buy it on your own but you will get a tax write off for the purchase.

No one thought about allowing people to withdraw their 401K funds and IRA funds tax and penalty free to make ends meet.

No one thought about pumping more money into the Small Business Administration so that they could give out more loans and or separating that program from banks.

There were better ideas out there if they all would have just left their offices and visited with us on Main Street but no, they sat up on the hill and got ideas from their lobbyist buddies.

I think extending unemployment benefits for a year is a great idea and up the amount of money that is paid. I also have no problem with benefits for parttime work if that work was more than 24 hours a week, week after week.

So many companies have labelled positions parttime over the last few years to escape having to provide benefits, vacation, and holiday pay...and yet they work these people 40 hours or more a week.

So, that is where we stand today....and I have actually given some ideas of what a stimulus plan should look like.

Hope it helps.

Oh, and the guy that wants to fund a water park should be castrated...we do not need that stupidity reproducing! :)

Jennifer said...

Actually it helps quite a bit, thank you TAO. When I hear economics and finance I always cringe, but you breaking it down that way, makes it much easier to take in. I wish a few people in Washington could have listened to your ideas, maybe we wouldn't be in such a mess!

I think killing IRA withdraw penalties and extending unemployment sound completely practical compared to what they are trying to pass. Is common sense too much to ask for?

TAO said...

Common Sense?

The real trouble is how many times have you seen your Congressman downtown? How many times have you seen them in church? At the local mall?

They sit on the Hill and rely on thier assistants and lobbyists to tell them what is what.

They get talking points from their parties and they got every special interest group vying to make presentations and send them on fact finding junkets.

They return to the districts they serve and do they return to a job, to a business, or to the local community? Nope, they return for fundraising.

So to get elected they support the groups that support them.

They do not govern upon the consent of the people they govern based upon polls, statistics, and supporting groups that support them financially.

THAT is the real problem with our political system.

If you read the biographies of our founding fathers and other great political leaders from our history you realize that they maintained their contact with their non political life.

They had contact with just regular non political folks while now the regular joe is represented by poll statistics.

That is why we have ended up so far from our roots.

The longer someone serves the more out of touch they are...and then all the new members are basically pushed aside as newbies until they adapt to the ways of the Hill....

We really are not a representative democracy at all.

TAO said...

For every stimulus dollar spent, exactly how much benefit do we get in return? Mark Zandi, Chief Economist at Moody’s Economy provides these data for all to see:

Accelerated Depreciation – $ 0.27
Bush Income Tax Cuts -- $0.29
Corporate Tax Cut -- $0.30
Dividend and Capital Gains Tax Cuts -- $0.37
Across the Board Tax Cuts -- $1.03

Aid to States -- $1.36
Infrastructure Spending -- $1.59
Unemployment Insurance (Extended) -- $1.64
Food Stamps -- $1.73

Not on the this chart (Source: Moodys):
Education -- $1.74


Obviously the items you would want to fund the most are the ones that would give you the most return on your investment but do note that with the 108 billion reduction we have cut out the items with the greatest bang.

Go figure.....

suvick84 said...

Thank you to Senators Snowe, Collins and Spector for supporting the Stimulus bill. IT is ridiculous for people to say they are turncoats for supporting this bill. Why do the Republicans all vote in lockstep like the Nazi's . Are they afraid? Afraid of what? Rush Limbaugh making fun of them?At least some of the Republicans have minds of their own and are thinking of the welfare of the American

Joe said...

How about comparing today with 1974, or with The Great Depression?

What I do think, though, is that BO (excuse me...President BO) is establishing not a socialist society, but a SUPER-socialist society.

When the President declares what CEOs should make, taking that decision away from the stock-holders, he is nationalizing that company and is setting himself up as one who can dictate who gets what...that is, a dictator.

Just as Cubans embraced Castro, Americans are embracing President BO.

Terrifying.

Taylor1066 said...

Joe said: "Just as Cubans embraced Castro, Americans are embracing President BO.

Terrifying."

Terrifying Indeed Joe.
This whole adminstration is Terrifying and very scary.
Good post.

Pasadena Closet Conservative said...

I'm afraid it's not so much a bombshell as it is something we're getting used to.

CB said...

TAO,

Conflating historic advances in political liberty (freeing of slaves, women's suffrage, etc.) with erosions in economic freedom (advent of federal reserve, income tax, new deal, great society, eliminating the gold standard, bailouts to nowhere, etc.) is a nice rhetorical attempt to tie those things together but it doesn't work. In fact, northern industrial states were wealthier than southern slave states, so that argument doesn't wash with reality.

Erosions in economic liberty however, like heavy progressive taxation, death taxes, income redistribution, federal reserve monetary manipulation, etc., lock in class differences and make it more difficult to do one of the things we do best in America. America has more rags to riches stories than anywhere else on earth for a reason, because we have been more economically free. We are not like old Europe where there is limited social/economic mobility. Only economic freedom produces that.

CB said...

suvick,

I agree, Collins, Spector and Snowe are looking out for the welfare of Americans. They apparently want the number of Americans on welfare to grow!

The Historian said...

Another poster here had made a comment about Obama having a “bad week” I do not know why he said it was a bad week.
Seems like his hideous agenda is humming along and meeting with a great deal of success.
He will get his stimulus bill. In 2010 he will have a trillion dollars to buy votes and corrupt the electoral system. It will also crash the dollar and take out America as a world power. It also completely end runs national debate on his socialist agenda in health care, education, energy, etc. It will destroy the wealth of the middle class and make them supine slaves, it will turn the nation into a 3rd world country. This is a big win not a loss. There is Tarp and Auto bailout next week, so you can expect another trillion dollar looting quite soon. The Dollar cannot take a 20% increase of national debt in one month alone.
Charges against the Cole bomber dropped. The PR around this suggests that he has coopted the “families” around this and 911. This signals a success in shifting the WOT back to a“legal response”, and buys time for his Muslim brethren. Another bug win
SCHIPS ( State Children's Health Insurance Program) is passed, this is a stealth move toward Socialized Medicine. Raises taxes too.
Passed this new labor law with removes time limits on ““equal work”” laws. This is another stab at capitalism and the Middle class, particularly small business. It is also a noce present for his tort lawyer backers.
Got through more union friendly exclusive orders.
Got confirmed absurdly corrupt appointments. Did it laughingly and in the open. This has now inured the public to the point that they accept it as common place.. This will deeply damage the morality of the electorate in the end.
Appointed the most corrupt and anti-capitalistic business council in the history of the country (well, at least since FDR).
Has managed to completely dodge who is responsible for this financial mess, or even the question of whether or not it was manufactured. The miscreants are still sitting in power on the hill and on Wall Street. They are almost to a soul Democrats.
Bad week? hardly.
It does not matter if he appears frayed around the edges a bit to the public or not:
1) Obama is just a front man, the Communist are in power now and they can do what thy please. We have put in power a large groups of villains, not just one man. If he were to leave tomorrow, we would still have the exact same problems on our hands
2) they have so much money now that they do not have to worry about listening to the public. They can do as they please, and they will just buy the next election. we are headed for a corrupt, one party, quasi-socialist state like Mexico under the PRI. We will be just as poor as they are.
3) the scales have now tipped so that there are more takers than givers. This has already happened in Dem controlled states like California, or Michigan. They are not going back to what they once were, at least not through the traditional (and legal) political processes. California is not going to be “reformed”, it will just get worse.
Look at how impoverished these places are. This is coming to all of us now.
3) The media will find a way to win them back
So Obama and the Democrats War against America, War Against Capitalism, War Against the Middle Class and the War Against the Good are well on their ways to final victories for these vermin.
We need to stop kidding ourselves. Obama is one of the worse things to ever happen to this country. Perhaps the worst.
To think of all those brave men and women that stood up against tyranny, particularly the ones that stood up against the collectivist hordes of the last century, and then to see a silent coup by the worst sort of socialist and communist jackals is one of the saddest things I have ever seen.
Obama is just a front man, the Communist are in power now and they can do what thy please.
And, by the way……
DON’T blame BLACK AMERICA for this fraud/farce/phoney. Black people will always vote DEMOCRATIC and especially if a black candidate is on the ticket as well as Latinos and Union workers, teachers et al.
Blame the stupid PC WHITE people who bought into the hopey-changy-rearangey crap hook, line and sinker.

Bad week, no, I don’t think so at all... It was a Good week for him, but a Bad week for us.

BTW:.... In regard to your other blog Ref: "Supporting Obama" All the idiots that voted for Obama got scammed, anyone who voted or Obama is a fool! Anyone that supports Obama is a fool.

Ted Sims said...

How anybody could defend the marxist in the White House is beyond me. The black community is so besotted by skin color they can't see straight. How else would 94 percent of tbe blacks have voted for this man? Isn't that racism? The black community has much to answer for.
Sorry people but this Fear mongering president gets no support from me either..Maybe he should have figured out if he could handle the job before he ran for election. No sympathy from me.

Ted Sims said...

This president is full of Arrogance. Plain and simple. How else do you explain the massive spending porkulus bill. Plus nominating at least 4 tax cheats for high positions, is that how we reward tax cheats now, by promoting them to high positions?. And those are the ones we know about so far. Yes, arrogance. Obama strutting around, yelling at Republicans to get in line. Trouble for Obama is, America will get tired of this kind of brutish behavior sooner rather than later. He’s gotten a big head. We’ll see how it all plays out. Pelosi and Reid are just dumb and dumber. I gave Obama more credit than to end up being such an arrogant unprofessional jerk.
And thanks for allowing me to post my comment in this blog.

Napqueen said...

I am proud to support Barack Obama.
The founding vision for America is still sound and beautiful: Fairness, respect, honesty and a collective agreement to ensure all Americans equal voice and equal opportunity. That's the legacy we need to leave our children and our grandchildren. This is one of the youngest countries in the world. It was formed in response to tyranny and disrespect. There's still a lot of work to be done to realize that dream. We need to keep fighting to protect and to make it real. The selfishness and cynicism that we're seeing from the Republican leadership threatens to tarnish and erode the core of what makes America truly great.
Barack Obama, from the day he entered public life, has understood that we all share the blessings of liberty, and that we all share the costs and the benefits of those blessings. As a state legislator in one of America's largest states--with almost twenty times the population of Alaska--he worked with Republicans and Democrats to create affordable health care for Illinois children, so that when they were sick, or born with disabilities, their mothers didn't have to line up in an emergency room. He worked for the welfare of our oldest citizens, who had given a life of service to this country, and did not need to spend their final years in poverty and indignity. As a United States Senator, Barack Obama has continued that important, bi-partisan work.
AND AS PRESIDENT HE WILL ONCE AGAIN BRING AMERICA back to the nation we knew and loved prior to the Bush years.

CB said...

Napqueen,

You and Michael Phelps, please step away from the bong, back away from the crack pipe.

This has been a public service message.

TAO said...

Ah, CB...

The one and only keeper of the truth and holder of the real vision of our founding fathers!

What a responsiblity you have! :)

Now lets go back to your response to me...

Our founding fathers established a POLITICAL SYSTEM not an economic system.

If you want to discuss what is wrong with our political system then you use the right texts and quotes. But for economics you missed it entirely.

If you want to discuss our economic system then why not first acknowledge, as Eisenhower did in his comment of the military industrial complex.

The point being that the political system did not and does not dictate to the economic system; in fact that are joined at the hip. Not because of the demands of individuals but rather because of the mutually beneficial needs of those who govern and those who have wealth.

I would argue that Republicans have been just as much, if not more so, communistic as anything that Obama has promoted.

In fact the current bailout is just an attempt to use citizens as a way to stimulate economic growth for the benefit of special economic interests.

While we both agree that the separation of economic and political systems should be absolute reality is it isn't even close and I am not sure that either system could run as they do without the other.

But to sit here and slam Obama over and over again for a reality that was developing before he was even born and one that we were warned about back during Eisenhowers days is dishonest at best.

Now if you want to debate that that is fine, but why would you expect Obama to turn back the hands of time when Bush did everything he could do to speed up what we are facing today?

Conflating? Is that like using political theory (Founding Fathers) and social theory (Locke and Marx) to explain economic events today? Why didn't you just start with an economic theory?

Susannah said...

Nap, yes, equal voice & equal OPPORTUNITY. Not equal wealth, housing, cars, income, ammenities of life...Why should my husband & I work & save ourselves silly to provide for our children & save for our own retirement, only to have Uncle Sam swipe it away & pass it along to an unemployed single mother who just had 8 babies (when she couldn't provide for the 6 she already had)!!?? How is that upholding fairness, respect & dignity??? To my mind, that's the epitome of selfishness & it breeds cynicism like a rancid cancer.

Whew...if anyone's interested, I've posted a few links that a very concerned conservative was kind enough to send me. One is for the Americans for Prosperity petition against the Stimulus Bill. Please act, folks!

CB said...

TAO,

The truth of what Locke wrote, that which resonated so with those who risked their lives to rebel, was that political and economic freedom go hand in hand. Without economic freedom, there is no liberty.

I won't try to argue the point here but I have several books that I can refer to you if you're interested in learning. It's really not that hard to understand, but if you prefer to have someone else explain it to you, I'll suggest Forrest McDonald (Novus Ordo Seclorum). You're the only person I've seen seriously argue that our charter isn't an economic resolution as much as it is a political charter.

By the way, on the cover of Newsweek magazine this week, the cover reads "We are all Socialists Now." But I'm just hyperbolic!

TAO said...

CB,

There is nothing in our Constitution that dictates one economic system over another..because at the time the choices were slim, feudalism and......

Thats pretty much it.

Adam Smith did not write the Wealth of Nations until 1776 and wasn't available to our founding fathers at the time they were working on their ideas.

You yourself acknowledge that Karl Marx develop his ideas until the 1800's.

Our Declaration of Independence and Constitution are NOT economic charters...they are social organizational charters defining the relationship of man the individual to man the social organizational member.

BUT, that does not make our Founding Fathers Capitalists, in fact most of the ones from the south were feudalists.

I have read "We The People" by McDonald and I have read everything Marx wrote.

TAO said...

Oh, and I would argue that the reason we are all socialists is because supply side economics of Reagan and Bush gave us no choice.

But, it is not what the PEOPLE wanted but rather what the folks in power and on Wall Street wanted.

It was the desire of the pinnacle of Capitalism in this country that created our current situation.

No one marched in the streets and no one created a revolution attacking the old and installing the new.

It was the beneficiaries of the old capitalistic system who are no demanding a socialism for their incompentency and greed.

I think most Americans are pretty disgusted with all of it.

Shaw Kenawe said...

CB said...
Napqueen,

You and Michael Phelps, please step away from the bong, back away from the crack pipe.


Dear CB,

You do not hold the reins of truth. You have a viewpoint, yes. But you are not the last word in what this country needs.

Please.

Do not denigrate those who differ with you.

We could say you drink the Limbaugh Kool-Aid, but that would mean you have no independent thoughts of your own.

Don't do it to others who disagree with you.

Thanks.

CB said...

Shaw,

I respect what your opinion but I disagree and right now, watching this communist (socialist in a hurry) pile lies upon fabrications and distortions (Japan's lost decade was because government didn't act...what?) I'm not in much of a conciliatory mood.

The press is lobbing softballs and he is obviously picking friendly reporters. Will I have to sew on my own red star, hammer and sickle at the re-education camp?

Johnwk said...

Hello folks, I found this place by poking around the internet a bit and while I enjoy a few conservative blogs and news sources, I felt like exploring something where I had more freedom to express myself and comment on a blog
I can't believe this stupid thing is going to pass because of traitorous so called Republicans... Sen. Collins, Sen. Snowe, and Sen. Specter as the gang of three who sided with Marxists in Congress There's nothing fiscally conservative about this bill

I’ve moved from being mildly hopeful about Obama to being repulsed by him.... And this is just more proof of Dem projection. I never once heard Bush call anyone “unpatriotic” but it seems to be all the dems can do - shout “unpatriotic” and “treasonous” for simply disagreeing with Obama... They’re really starting to sound like freaking brownshirts.

World's Best Historian said...

Obama says failing to act
could lead to a catastrophe!!
The catastrophe is the stimulas bill. The catastrophe is the Obama presidency. This fearmonger is trying to bury us in more ways than one...
The "Americans" who voted for 0bama are not the same Americans who won the war against the Third Reich. Liberalism has transformed once rugged independents into sheep. They are now Americans in name only, who ignore the Constitution, who take freedom for granted, and who can hardly wait to have the government confiscate other Americans' earnings and give that money to them.
So this is what it has come to. An economic crisis caused by liberal congress critters. Add a newly elected lying Bozo for president and that formula means that liberals can just about do whatever they want to.
The Messiah sayeth:
"We MUST pass this Stimulus Bill IMMEDIATELY, urgently! Right now! Without delay! Hurry up! No time for reading...just vote vote vote....for it now and fast"

Susannah said...

I'm a mother of 3 children (very bright ones, I must add), & I know that when someone wants to rush past me with something, or hurry me through something, they're almost ALWAYS hiding an ulterior motive.

There's no difference in my kids trying to pull a fast one & this stimulus bill. Be wary folks, & be very concerned about Mr. O's scary 'sky is falling' rhetoric.

Email/call your Congressional reps. TODAY!!

PhantomMan said...

Thank you Susannah for what you just said. It's was refreshing to read your post. How can anyone even suggest that we conservatives support this disaster? Isn’t it obvious to you that Obama is the most dangerous thing brought to the United States in a lifetime. By the time he's done or gets thrown out, he'll make Carter look competent and Bush look like Thomas Jefferson.

Should we all have to suffer because of a dumbed down electorate and a lying pandering liberal media that made this happen? Anyone with the least bit of common sense and love for this country should certainly want this hopeless, socialist dreamer to fail, and fail big. The biggest flaw in a democracy is that EVERYONE gets to vote, even the uneducated, the misguided, the lazy, the foolish, the dreamers and worst of all, the elitist socialists who helped elect this fraud.
And how about these Idiots in Obamas corner who can`t even vet people properly. How can any moron expect us to sign up for the biggest tax debt in the history of America and not vet the people in their cabinet. This BS with Daschle is where it has to stop. This guy was the head of the senate. He knew about the tax laws he created. And if he is too stupid to grasp the tax laws than he is too stupid to be the Health Care Czar. The true class envy here is these politicians don`t have to pay their taxes and we responsible people do. DASCHLE IS A TAX CHEAT. AND Obama said AFTER finding this out that he wanted to “Stand behind him”! Daschle should go to jail! Not be brought into the administration. And if it weren’t for the public’s outcry he would have been confirmed. I can't even stand to look at him, much less listen to his self-aggrandizing misplaced sentimental crap and his constant
din about how terrible America is/was/will be and his crap about the destruction of our nation and his "negative rights" ideology of our Constitution
DOWN WITH SOCIALISM and that means DOWN WITH OBAMA/PELOSI/REID/DODD/RANGEL/FRANK/ etc....Failure IS an option, and Barack O'Messiah MUST fail to save this country.

I'm with Rush.
Remember, Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism.

PhantomMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
sixtiesdude said...

To those same loudmouthed Obama lovers and conservative forgivers who are asking us to bow down and support this guy... and asking us to stop bashing him.. I say fat freaking chance of that happening.
That is about the most insane thing I have ever heard anyone say.
What I kept thinking, during his News Conference, was he is in WAY over his head. He stood up there and looked like a little kid dressed in Daddy's suit. He sounded like a Slickster trying to answer questions with smooth answers that said NOTHING. I kept thinking how different things would be if Mitt Romney were speaking and how different his decisions would be about the economy. Too bad we let a few states knock the best man out of the Race. I can add thanks my fellow republicans for not supporting John McCain but they want us to support Obama!! Truly a bunch of Morons.

CB said...

We are watching Atlas Shrugged live and in color.

Arthurstone said...

CB raved:

'We are watching Atlas Shrugged live and in color.'


What better time to practice your sewing CB?

TAO said...

Yes CB, its Atlas Shrugged....

Conservatives have become Jim Taggart where they point their fingers at everyone else in regards to problems and demand that everyone believe and follow as they do....

CB said...

Jim Taggart didn't lead anyone as I recall, he looked to his sister until it was too late. Hank Rearden and Dangy Taggert were the conservatives. They tried desperately to save what had been hopelessly corrupted.

I'd like to say that we were the Midas Mulligans, Francisco d'Anconia's, Rangar Dannesdkjolds, Hugh Akstons, John Galts or even Ellis Wyatts but we're still trying to save the world from itself.

Arthurstone said...

Speaking of 'saving what had been hopelessly corrupted' this guy is using your schtick Bardo:

http://web.knoxnews.com/pdf/021009church-manifesto.pdf

A New York Guy's View said...

These comments may be a bit off topic but since you locked up the comments on the blog I wanted to comment on, I’ll say what I have to say here.
I have to wonder, what you libs will say when people start making our new president look like a monkey? Are you going to say that’s racist? Will it be racist to make him look like a dumb chimp but to do it to Bush was just peachy fine? Are you hypocrites going to scream “Racist” when that happens, if the conservatives have the ball to do it? He has already shown how clueless he is. Why are we surprised ? The man has no depth. But the people who voted for him don't either.How bad does it have to get" before the country wakes up?
I hope President Obama is at least as big a failure as Bush was, because, I love my country, and our troops. Wait, I mean I love Rush Limbaugh, and hate our country, but support our troops. You people call yourselves patriots, then act like one....This man is not worth MY support as an American who loves their country.. I have an idea. Fight the policies, support the President, but don't support the man, humm that won't work. . Isn't that what you wished the liberals would have done during the last eight years...
The Bush Administration listens in on terrorist communications and monitors their money flow (until the patriotic New York Times squealed) IS THIS what they call UN-American? We caught so many would be terrorists that way but the left and the MSM became hysterical - with every DailyKos Kook convinced that Dick Cheney was listening in on THEIR phone calls (as if they’’d have anything truly interesting to say).
Now comes Barack Obama who wants to collect every detail of our medical care: nurse’s and physician’s notes, prescriptions, procedures, lab tests and results, anything you told a psychiatrist…… you name it - the most intimate details of your life. And silence. Just think what the libs could do to their opponents with this sort of info. You decide!! I already did.

Obama is still in campaign mode; running all over the country in his new “Airforce One” Bull Shiting the country, eating $500.00 Lobster and caviar dinners and going to Super Bowl parties and telling us to cut down on our extravagant ways ..that is all he knows. He has never been a leader in any meaning of the word. Right now, Nancy Pelosi is running this country, God help us.
And Obama has the balls to drag out Geithner the tax cheat who has close ties to Goldman Sachs and Wall Street, and turned a blind eye to Geithner's tax problem and promoted him
to tries to explain what the hell they are doing when neither of them have a clue. .You saw how Investors felt aqbout that, the stock market fell 400 points on that bill passing.


It's going to take a year before the uninformed among us really understand what the Democrats did to America with this spending bill. By then it will be too late. We can hope for a turnaround in the 2010 elections, but only if we conservatives are determined enough to contribute our time and money to the cause. Many Republicans feel that they have been stabbed in the back by the Party and I don't blame them. Republicans in Congress have a lot of work to do to convince the rest of us that they deserve to be there. Obama and his pack of clowns are clueless

Arthurstone said...

New York Guy-

Date & location of one of the Presidents '$500 lobster & caviar dinners'.

Anyone will do.

Thanks!