tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post2478863704542531005..comments2023-10-22T07:23:03.102-06:00Comments on Conservative Convictions: "The Call to Dunkirk" Launches Mass Exodus From Public SchoolsRoberthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17457956739752722879noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-45563177001698407542009-01-09T11:36:00.000-06:002009-01-09T11:36:00.000-06:00And as I've said, I'm fine if individual parents d...And as I've said, I'm fine if individual parents decide that's what's best for their. My problem (beyond the stupid Nazi allusion) is with the call for ALL Christian parents to do so. I'd suggest it's best decided on a child by child and family by family basis.<BR/><BR/>I guess I was also wondering what the problem is, as some have suggested that they are somehow having "rights" lost to them as Christians, and that's just not the case in public schools. <BR/><BR/>Others have sounded like they're suggesting they want Christian rituals practiced and taught in public schools, something I, as a Christian, object to strenuously.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the answers, CB.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-71716297301564985542009-01-09T11:16:00.000-06:002009-01-09T11:16:00.000-06:00Dan,Remember, this group is calling for Christians...Dan,<BR/><BR/>Remember, this group is calling for Christians to separate themselves from public schools, not the general populace. If we believe that God created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th, then we can feel free to believe that and teach biology, chemistry and physics without the political baggage in a Christian context, which is what our schools do.<BR/><BR/>On the question of anthropogenic climate change, there is substantial debate on whether or not any variances in temperature over time have anthropogenic origin or whether the man made impact is significant enough to call for changes in the economy.Craig Bardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02247430738711822531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-73113538263741291222009-01-09T09:02:00.000-06:002009-01-09T09:02:00.000-06:00A post-mortem: THE NEW LEPER COLONY: FOR WOMEN ON...A post-mortem: <A HREF="http://swashzone.blogspot.com/2009/01/new-leper-colony-for-women-only.html" REL="nofollow">THE NEW LEPER COLONY: FOR WOMEN ONLY</A>(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-14602162370387942792009-01-09T08:35:00.000-06:002009-01-09T08:35:00.000-06:00re: Global cooling, I mean, warming, I mean climat...re: <I>Global cooling, I mean, warming, I mean climate change, no, sorry, climate crisis</I><BR/><BR/>The scientific concern here is over the problems of possible anthropogenic global climate change, if you want the most accurate descriptor. "Global cooling," "global warming" and "climate crisis" are all political catchphrases that describe legitimate scientific research in the area of global climate change and its possible anthropogenic causes.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-45291441901050288472009-01-09T08:32:00.000-06:002009-01-09T08:32:00.000-06:00Okay, so you had some courses your teachers taught...Okay, so you had some courses your teachers taught with which you disagreed. That has happened for me on occasion, as well. Fortunately, I am the parent and I have my child for more hours than any one teacher and so I can also instruct. I have not found that so difficult.<BR/><BR/>But let me ask you this: You are in the minority if you think the world was created in six days, if you think that this is a legitimate topic for school study. I don't suppose you think that schools ought to teach ALL theories, even theories that are rejected by the educational/scientific community fairly soundly, just because a student happens to come from a family that believes in that theory?<BR/><BR/>That is, if a family believes that JFK was murdered by a coalition of mafia and FBI agents, sponsored by aliens, do you think the history teacher ought to cover that material so as to be PC and not offend that family?<BR/><BR/>Ought we teach that the earth is flat or that the moon can support life, if a student comes from a family that believes that? <BR/><BR/>I'm sure you would agree with me that far-fetched and/or faith-based (ie, not based on science) theories and hunches ought not be taught just because a student's family believes in it. You have, after all, just decried political correctness and sensitivity to "alternative" lifestyles.<BR/><BR/>For my part, coming from the peace church tradition, we don't believe in war-making. However, I recognize that our family is in the minority on this point. So, when classes come along that glorify war, I have to be sure to give my children the other side of the story. I also have to make sure that teachers aren't demeaning of the pacifist tradition (or the creationist tradition or the flat world tradition) because we ought to respect one another, and that's a good thing and part of the learning process.<BR/><BR/>My point is, if you are in a small minority on a particular viewpoint, yes, you can expect that your viewpoint won't be given time and may even be belittled. As a matter of respect, we can ask schools not to belittle the alternative lifestyle views (which you seem to oppose, interestingly enough), even if they don't "teach" it.<BR/><BR/>For myself, I don't have a problem with any of that, it is as it should be. Again, I don't want schools teaching religious doctrine, we do that at home and at church.<BR/><BR/>A follow up question: Why the hostility towards notions of "compassion," and sensitivity? These are good Christian (albeit not exclusively) values, the very thing that you all seem to be wanting. I find that confusing, perhaps you'd like to explain that?<BR/><BR/>Regardless, thanks for the answers you've given thus far. Honestly, as a person having minority views, I can appreciate the concerns that some parents have, I have them myself. It's just that I don't want the schools teaching my minority religious views, just out of a sense of PC and sensitivity to my lifestyle.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-80922954256616930992009-01-08T22:53:00.000-06:002009-01-08T22:53:00.000-06:00Ok Dan, I'll bite. Global cooling, I mean, warmin...Ok Dan, I'll bite. Global cooling, I mean, warming, I mean climate change, no, sorry, climate crisis. Evolution, which is, after all a theory - a very leaky (no pun intended) theory being taught as fact. Revisionist American history. Political correctness and sensitivity to "alternative" lifestyles and family structures. Even in one of the Christian schools, we had to battle one teacher's outright advocacy for a political candidate in the classroom (this was in high school). Various notions of "compassion" etc., it goes on and on, remember, I have 5 children.Craig Bardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02247430738711822531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-28602654028181018932009-01-08T22:05:00.000-06:002009-01-08T22:05:00.000-06:00CB, perhaps you could describe what it is that you...CB, perhaps you could describe what it is that you describe as "indocrination," that you objected to at public schools?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-22759876576272864622009-01-08T20:55:00.000-06:002009-01-08T20:55:00.000-06:00Good post Gayle! Sorry I'm just getting around to...Good post Gayle! Sorry I'm just getting around to commenting. We really tried to work with the indoctrination centers with my 5 children but there was more battling going on than learning, so we pay twice for school because have chosen Christian education.<BR/><BR/>They could quote Antonio Gramsci, the Marxist theorist who first proposed infiltrating the public schools and the media to advance their objectives that could not otherwise be won. Communists have taken the long view, we as Christians, are supposed to have a longer view.Craig Bardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02247430738711822531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-14006542395949460942009-01-08T11:55:00.001-06:002009-01-08T11:55:00.001-06:00Thanks for the clarification, though, Patrick.Thanks for the clarification, though, Patrick.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-24711537386627285852009-01-08T11:55:00.000-06:002009-01-08T11:55:00.000-06:00Understood. Still...With a few exceptions, the sen...Understood. Still...<BR/><BR/><I>With a few exceptions, the sense of the Judeo-Christian ethic has left the schools, and the moral backing it provided along with it.</I><BR/><BR/>This is your opinion, but you have stated it as if it were a fact. If you have some evidence of your assertion, feel free to back it up.<BR/><BR/>It has been my experience that the sense of Judeo-Christian ethic is very much in our schools generally, along with a sense of moral rectitude. <BR/><BR/>School administrators and teachers don't <I>want</I> children to behave other than the Golden Rule. They very much DO want everyone to treat others as they want to be treated. With NOT A SINGLE exception, that has been my experience. While that is anectdotal, it is so pervasive, I'd have to see some evidence to support a claim that "the sense of Judeo-Christian ethics" have left schools.<BR/><BR/>You are welcome, of course, to your opinion. Just understand that it is that - only your opinion. Perhaps it would communicate better if you said, "it seems to me..." or "in my experience..."<BR/><BR/>Same for the teachers. I have not met a single teacher who was what I would call "bottom of the barrel," or who weren't there at least partially out of a sense of calling to minister - even the non-theistic teachers. I have met some teachers who aren't as good as I'd like, who needed some help, who were overloaded and underappreciated, but not the first Nazi, not the first "bottom of the barrel."<BR/><BR/>In my experience.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-18039958230228749022009-01-08T11:01:00.000-06:002009-01-08T11:01:00.000-06:00Gayle: Let me clarify. There is a distinct diffe...Gayle: Let me clarify. There is a distinct difference between allowing God to guide you in life and applying your religion to everything. Taken to extremes, someone can begin to demand that government continue to enforce biblical teachings when those who don't believe find themselves unable to express themselves?<BR/><BR/>Just a couple of examples:<BR/><BR/>Would you support legislation to apply a moral code to the Internet, specifically to target porn?<BR/><BR/>Would you support the continuation of FCC rules that control content on the "public" airwaves?<BR/><BR/>Would you support legislation that defines the family?<BR/><BR/>If so, China would be the country for you, because that's what they do. Or Saudi Arabia. One is without religion (except for statism), the other with, but they both use their beliefs to infringe on personal liberty.<BR/><BR/>The danger of applying a religious viewpoint in a clearly secular area is that, to satisfy your demands, others must surrender their self-determination.<BR/><BR/>However, as I mentioned in <A HREF="http://patrickmspeaks.blogspot.com/2009/01/education-for-other.html" REL="nofollow">my education post</A>, our system as it is is seriously broke. But trying to replace one dogma with another in teaching children will produce similar results.<BR/><BR/>Dan: quick clarification (as I have to make lunch):<BR/><BR/>The comment on Christianity leaving the schools - With a few exceptions, the sense of the Judeo-Christian ethic has left the schools, and the moral backing it provided along with it. I don't mean to refer to the actual teaching of religion, which is not the purpose of schools.<BR/><BR/>The departure of civic morality is not gone in the sense that teachers try to enforce it, but gone in the sense that the culture does not support them enough to allow them to enforce it.<BR/><BR/>An example would be the oft-repeated stories (that I lack the time to reference) where schools levy a punishment and the parents of the little bastards respond my setting lawyers on them. Especially when the rules are clear.<BR/><BR/>As for the bottom of the barrel, I remember all the excellent teacher I had as well. I have the advantage of being in a small town, where education is better (my worst teachers were actually in my Catholic school years). But too often, good teachers are driven to areas where they can teach in peace while other places get what's left. And combined with all the other things teachers face today, there's a point that many of them reach where it's about collecting a paycheck and not getting bludgeoned.<BR/><BR/>It is hard not to generalize sometimes in a comment, so if I seemed to be doing so, I stand corrected. But I am trying to get into the middle of ideology slinging. And that always makes it a challenge.Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-49031118739383103492009-01-08T10:28:00.000-06:002009-01-08T10:28:00.000-06:00Thanks for trying to make some middle ground point...Thanks for trying to make some middle ground points and for your efforts at peacemaking. Yet, there remain some unproven and simply wrong assertions in your response.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/><I>Christianity has left government school system...</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, has it? How does "Christianity" leave anywhere? Is Christianity not generally going to be where Christians are? I am a Christian. My children are Christians. We all went to public schools and our Christianity went/goes with us.<BR/><BR/>Christianity has not left the school system. Now, what HAS happened is that we have removed some vestiges of an enforced Christianity in schools. We no longer force children to sit through prayers uttered by the teachers, for instance. But that is a good thing, seems to me. I don't want a teacher to be teaching my children how to pray (perhaps wrongly, in my estimation). That is my role. It has no place in public schools.<BR/><BR/>Now, as a Christian, does that mean I despise prayer? That is a ridiculous assertion, of course I don't. I just don't especially want teachers leading prayers for my children. My children are still 100% free to pray in schools if they wish, but they don't have it coming at them from a teacher. That's the difference and it is a good thing, says this Christian.<BR/><BR/>You continue...<BR/><BR/><I>...but a civic morality (which is simply the Golden Rule w/o God attached) went away with it.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, this is an unsupported and mistaken claim. The Golden Rule is gone from schools? Schools DON'T want their teachers and children "doing unto others"? Says who? Do you have any support for such a claim.<BR/><BR/>The golden rule is a standard of living that "the schools" can't take away. You can choose to live by the golden rule or not. Teachers daily encourage it, just not using religious terminology.<BR/><BR/>Again, that is how it should be. I don't want a teacher whom I don't know to be teaching my child about how to live out their religion. I guarantee you that many people here, if I were their child's teacher, they would not want me to teach them about religion - even though I'm a Christian.<BR/><BR/>School is the place for education, not being indoctrinated into a given teacher's specific religious views.<BR/><BR/>You continue...<BR/><BR/><I> And far too many people forgot that the purpose of school was to educate, not conduct social experiments.</I><BR/><BR/>That is what I'm saying above. Some here seem to be saying (although they don't answer questions, so it's hard to tell) that they want to conduct a social experiment in teaching religion in schools. I don't. School is the place for education, not Dan's or Gayle's or Mohammad's prayers and sunday school lessons.<BR/><BR/>You continue...<BR/><BR/><I>And as education became less personal and more institutional, we started having the bottom of the barrel crawling into the profession of teacher.</I><BR/><BR/>As a person with many friends who are dedicated top-notch school teachers, as a parent whose children have nearly universally had excellent school teachers, I reject this statement as biased, unproven and simply false.<BR/><BR/>Are there SOME bad teachers in our public schools? To be sure, I've run across some. But this sort of "bottom of the barrel" falsehood is the same sort of despicable lies as the "schools/liberals are Nazis" falsehoods.<BR/><BR/>Come now, let's be reasonable. If you want to assert that there are bad teachers out there, make that assertion. If you want to make the claim that some educators are hostile to Christianity, make that claim. THOSE claims are supportable. But these blanket condemning statements are demonstrably false and childish. <BR/><BR/>It is time to put away childish things, if you want to have decent adult conversations about important issues.<BR/><BR/>And, for the record, no slobber coming from my mouth, no anger in my heart. I'm just challenging some unsupported statements, as a good and reasonable person should.<BR/><BR/>I would hope that you all could accept that in the peaceful, seeking-understanding spirit it is offered.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-4063589358282237212009-01-08T09:15:00.000-06:002009-01-08T09:15:00.000-06:00By the way, Patrick, for me my faith is everything...By the way, Patrick, for me my faith is everything. Why should that anger anyone? For me, without God I am lost. That I believe in Him is not something that should anger any rational person. That it does also speaks volumes.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540710405153666843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-9805177881227826412009-01-08T09:12:00.000-06:002009-01-08T09:12:00.000-06:00Hugs back at you, Patrick! :)You make some good po...Hugs back at you, Patrick! :)<BR/><BR/>You make some good points about the video. I personally would be glad to see Americans - whether Christians or not - homeschooling or sending their children to private schools. Whether religious or not, many values Americans do hold dear are being lost in the public school system. With this post I did not mean to anger anyone. But as a Christian and as a Conservative I stick by this post. <BR/><BR/>For those who don't mind that their children are being taught only one opinion, public school is fine and dandy. If people don't care whether or not their daughter has an abortion without their permission, it's also fine and dandy. For those who don't care about the homosexual agenda being pushed in public schools, it's fine and dandy too. For people who do mind, they can educate their children somewhere else. That anyone should be angry about this post or my opinion speaks volumes. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again, Patrick.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540710405153666843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-67716335291120100342009-01-07T18:04:00.000-06:002009-01-07T18:04:00.000-06:00I'm going to cross-post this comment over on 8pus'...I'm going to cross-post this comment over on 8pus's response post as well (as he seems really pissed). Perhaps it will clear the air and hopefully lead to everyone getting a big virtual hug a-goin':<BR/><BR/>First of all, I finally watched the whole video (as opposed to just enough to get the gist (I do this often)). <BR/><BR/>My simple comment to the entire argument was that we should just take back the schools. However, I could see myself butting heads with this bunch of "Faith Nazis" just as fast as the "liberal fascist menace" that they seem to so violently fear will suck the country to at least Heck's reception area, if not Hell's lake of fire (where they have to have metal playing 204/7!).<BR/><BR/>But as usual, the lines were drawn between those who believed liberalism was turning children into little brown shirts worshiping Holy Mother State, and those who think the Christians are trying to break out with Inquisition 2.0.<BR/><BR/>But the problem is, as usual, more complex.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Christianity has left government school system, but a civic morality (which is simply the Golden Rule w/o God attached) went away with it. And far too many people forgot that the purpose of school was to educate, not conduct social experiments. And as education became less personal and more institutional, we started having the bottom of the barrel crawling into the profession of teacher.<BR/><BR/>So now, because no one has figured out what the real problem with education really is (as in, it's not about education anymore), we fight over ashattery such as this.<BR/><BR/>Gayle, Robert, it's this embrace of the religion-is-everything crowd that drives away people that could be swayed to conservative viewpoints, because I've found far too many Christians that are more intolerant than the intolerant any time their line of beliefs is crossed. And their supposed well-understood comments that resonate among the faithful hit a wall (like a certain excreted substance) the moment they leave the church. The danger of video is that it is easy to splatter imagery and anger people. In that vid, they lost my kind interest when they started with the Columbine footage (which is where I initially stopped and assumed). So you really need to look at some of these vids from another angle before you use them to spread conservatism. Converting people to a conservative worldview means not pissing them off.<BR/><BR/>8pus, as the angered party, you probably need to realize that many things that were understood as parts of civil society (as a general consensus on faith (as opposed to specific dogma) in America was) have been swept away in the rush to our modern world. And when have you ever seen someone react well when their ingrained faith is challenged? The excesses of the Christians today is in response to everything we have learned over my lifetime alone (and I'm not that old). But getting pissed and running away means you lose a battle, and perhaps a chance to convince the angry to embrace something better. It's something that has made the angriest liberal have problems arguing with me. <BR/><BR/>So.<BR/><BR/>Now that I've got my thoughts out (and burned a bridge or two), let's all get on that hug:<BR/><BR/><B><I>*hug*</I></B>Patrick Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377933168305160179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-84859921837086693082009-01-07T14:50:00.000-06:002009-01-07T14:50:00.000-06:00When you say you want to worship in public schools...When you say you want to worship in public schools, what do you mean?<BR/><BR/>I mean, we all can worship God in truth wherever we are. I can hear a kind word from a student to a despondent friend and praise God for friendship, I can look out the window and praise God for the trees and the wind. No one will stop me from doing that.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I can't and oughtn't think it okay to break out in a song merely to express my "right" to worship God that way. This is not what you're wanting to do, is it? Are you wanting to hold a church service with preaching right in the middle of a classroom? I find it hard to believe you'd want to do that.<BR/><BR/>Or, are you saying you want to be able to hold church (mosque, temple, etc) services at the school buildings? In some places you can do this - it's sort of a district to district call as to whether or not they want people in their buildings, and that's as it should be, too.<BR/><BR/>And you CAN pray at public high school football games. It happens all the time. Sometimes, it even happens publicly, but certainly people are able to pray in arenas if they want. OR, are you saying you want to hold a football crowd hostage and make them listen to your prayers? That is a different thing. But you still have every right in the world to pray. Just as I have a right not to want to hear your prayer. Are you wanting to force your prayer upon me? I'd find it hard to believe you'd want to do that, but you tell me.<BR/><BR/>And you ARE free to discipline your child as you wish. You aren't able to beat them, though, and that's as it should be, too, don't you think?<BR/><BR/>I don't think you've lost any of the rights that you think you've lost. That is, unless you think forcing others to listen to you is a good thing (ie, depriving others of their freedom of religion).<BR/><BR/><I>As to the anger, you proclaimed not to be particularly angry and then proceded with incindiary remarks.</I><BR/><BR/>Joe, honestly, I don't know what you're talking about. There is no "beating up" going on on my part. I'm asking questions, that's all, trying to ascertain your views and help you understand mine. What "incendiary remarks" do you think I made??<BR/><BR/>I think you're reading things into what I've said that simply aren't there. Perhaps that's just a limitation of the medium, but seriously, no great anger, no incendiary remarks coming from me. For what it's worth.<BR/><BR/>(although again, I would ask you: Don't you think some righteous anger is appropriate when people make outrageous remarks? Octopus clearly was angry, but righteously so, it seems to me.)Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-61123486821962539882009-01-07T12:47:00.000-06:002009-01-07T12:47:00.000-06:00Dan: Nope. I can't worship as I please, because I ...Dan: Nope. I can't worship as I please, because I please to be able to worship in public...including public schools.<BR/><BR/>I wish to pray in public...including public highschool football games.<BR/><BR/>I wish to be able to properly discipline my child according to my own set of values...and risk a neighbor turning me in to Child Protective Services if I so much as look at my child the wrong way.<BR/><BR/>Liberals have been very effective at usurping those and many other of our rights.<BR/><BR/>But you already knew that.<BR/><BR/>As to the anger, you proclaimed not to be particularly angry and then proceded with incindiary remarks.<BR/><BR/>Interesting.<BR/><BR/>(Forgive me CC, I hate when people beat up on each other in the comment sectin of someone elses' blog, but I couldn't stop myself.)Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693381971064363612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-22655953779406293292009-01-06T21:36:00.000-06:002009-01-06T21:36:00.000-06:00The Octopus Report in response to this post.<A HREF="http://swashzone.blogspot.com/2009/01/done-finished-outa-here.html" REL="nofollow">The Octopus Report</A> in response to this post.(O)CT(O)PUShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07589336822561030860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-7281431689780724212009-01-06T21:19:00.000-06:002009-01-06T21:19:00.000-06:00I like the above solution best of all; ie: maintai...<I>I like the above solution best of all; ie: maintain EVERYBODY'S freedom, not just the atheists'.</I><BR/><BR/>Specifically Joe, I'm wondering what freedoms you feel you are not being maintained. Can you not worship as you wish? Can you not pray as you wish? Can you not raise your child as you wish?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-80188853820617914422009-01-06T21:15:00.000-06:002009-01-06T21:15:00.000-06:00Joe said:WOW! Any objective person reading the abo...Joe said:<BR/><BR/><I>WOW! Any objective person reading the above can feel the anger drooling from the lips of peace-loving folks like Octopus, Dan, et.al.</I><BR/><BR/>I wonder how Joe discerns anger in any of my words? In truth, I'm not especially angry. Although, it IS extremely disgusting to make a Nazi comparison to liberals and one <I>ought</I> to be angry at such an immoral, irresponsible statement. Unfortunately, I've seen too much of that sort of bad behavior from folk who call themselves conservative to be especially angry, just a bit sad.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you agree that when people make horribly offensive statements, some righteous anger is appropriate, yes?<BR/><BR/>But beyond that bit of outrageousness, there is no anger in my questions, just curiosity. What "liberal agenda" is in place? What evidence do you have of this conspiracy? What would you like to see done differently? What freedoms do you want to see in place that aren't there now?<BR/><BR/>I find it interesting (nothing that makes me angry, just curious) that people seem to have strong opinions about the school, but they have not answered any of these sorts of questions.<BR/><BR/>So, sorry to disappoint you, Joe. No drool here, angry or otherwise. And what anger expressed by Octopus or myself is justified, I'd suggest. I would think you would agree - if someone suggested that conservative preachers were Nazis, would you not find that outrageous?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-11455594121853055272009-01-06T18:19:00.000-06:002009-01-06T18:19:00.000-06:00WOW! Any objective person reading the above can f...WOW! Any objective person reading the above can feel the anger drooling from the lips of peace-loving folks like Octopus, Dan, et.al.<BR/><BR/>I went to public schools in Oklahoma, Texas, Washington State, and Georgia.<BR/><BR/>We had devotions in home room every day in all but one of the above, Washington State.<BR/><BR/>The Jews in our classes were invited to join us or to have their own devotions, or not to have any at all.<BR/><BR/>There being no such thing as "separation of church and state" in our Constitution, I like the above solution best of all; ie: maintain EVERYBODY'S freedom, not just the atheists'.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and we home schooled our son, without failing to provide plenty of social interaction...on a much superior level than he got the one year he wanted to try public school.Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09693381971064363612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-53119747290337393472009-01-06T14:50:00.000-06:002009-01-06T14:50:00.000-06:00News Flash...Check Out MY BlogNews Flash...Check Out MY BlogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-73361165984466467542009-01-06T12:35:00.000-06:002009-01-06T12:35:00.000-06:00Miss Gayle, who are you arguing against? No one ha...Miss Gayle, who are you arguing against? No one has said anything about telling people how they should educate their children. No one has said that parents don't have a right to choose their schooling.<BR/><BR/>What I said was that I supported parents raising their children how they wish. <BR/><BR/>Liberals DO like freedoms, that's why we fight for them so hard.<BR/><BR/>Does anyone have any responses to the questions I actually raised, as opposed to comments that weren't made?<BR/><BR/>From my point of view, rocky is right on. Yes, you may indeed run across situations you disagree with, just like in real life. And part of the greatness of public education is the chance to resolve those situations in an adult manner that works for everyone involved.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-64719105288069121172009-01-06T11:33:00.000-06:002009-01-06T11:33:00.000-06:00Thanks, Chuck. Don't be a stranger! Again, thank...Thanks, Chuck. Don't be a stranger! Again, thank you too, Robert.<BR/><BR/>Wow! I didn't realize liberals were so against people deciding how they want their own children to be educated. Rather naive of me I suppose. This thread is definitely an eye-opener. <BR/><BR/>I maintain we parents have a right to choose what sort of education we give our children and if we want them taught both sides of every issue, it isn't being done in the public school system.<BR/><BR/>That's my last word on it. I'm an American, and we still have freedom of choice in this country whether liberals like it or not. Public school, private school or homeschool. It's up to the parents, period.Gaylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02540710405153666843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1110704082323083773.post-57849334112206276922009-01-06T10:32:00.000-06:002009-01-06T10:32:00.000-06:00Having raised four children to adulthood, all with...Having raised four children to adulthood, all with a public school education, I have found out some simple truths.<BR/>Young people are not sponges, nor are they stupid or that naive.<BR/>You will raise your children instilling your beliefs in them and they will gather further information from TV, school, their friends, etc. In the end, if you have done a good job of raising your children to be free thinking adults capable of making their own decisions and conducting their own lives, they will form their own opinions and beliefs that will aggravate you to no end!<BR/>The key to a good education is to be involved. By all means,look at your childrens' papers, ask them about their classes, if you have doubts, request to monitor a class. (I'm sure most of you do these things already.)<BR/>I had one child (the phycisist) who had English in 7th grade with a female teacher and went from an A to an F in one semester. Upon questioning my child and then talking to a few other parents I discovered this teacher did not like boys and was rather abusive to them. <BR/>I made an appointment with the principal, presented my case and demanded my son's removal from the class. I also informed him that doing an investigation of her teaching methods would be in his best interest as I would be filing a formal complaint with the school board and the state board of ed. And that is what I did.<BR/>I guess I could have pulled him out of that school but then he would have lost his social network. I think my son learned something far more important; that there are ways to work within the system and don't piss off Mom! :)<BR/>That was not the first or last incident in which I intervened. But my sons were made VERY aware that if I thought their actions just or their treatment by another unfair, I would be right up front defending them, but if I found out they had put a toe over the line...<BR/>It isn't a perfect world and as much as we want to protect our children,they will grow up and leave our protection. <BR/>If you really want to home school, I think you should. But be aware of not only what your children will gain but what they will lose.<BR/>Personally, I didn't have too much trouble with the cirriculum until it came to science. When my children were learning about dinosaurs and evolution, etc I made a point of explaining that this was a THEORY and then I made sure they understood the meaning of THEORY. I pointed out theories that later turned out to be wrong (like the world is flat) and those that turned out to be correct (like the theory of relativity). My sons are wonderful men, solid citizens, honest and compassionate.<BR/>My conclusion is that much more important to a child's education is YOUR actions and words - it is YOU from whom they are taking their cues. Watch your child and you will see a mirror of the way YOU act and react to situations.<BR/>Many religions DO have their own schools so this is not a new idea. And home schooling isn't a walk in the park either.<BR/>A mass exodus from public school will NOT solve this country's social ills and I hope you will take time to consider whether your desire to home school or go to a "Christian" school is just a knee jerk reaction or truly in your child's best interest.rockynchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772988855661101621noreply@blogger.com